The F1 thread

Cols

roundthebend said:

stickyfiddle said:

The forward-facing Max can has been released. Great snarky Reddit thread abound. 

Summary - it’s clear he braked way too late and didn’t make more than a token effort to stay on the track. WHATASURPRISE

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/qv6sxz/max_verstappens_onboard_camera_defending_lewis/

Having said what I did in the previous post, watching this footage suggests Max was steering a lot and maybe wasn't braking enough. It's not clear cut. I feel he was a bit naughty, but racing needs that. If it was just about who's fasted then we'd know the winner. There needs to be some "extended elbows" to hold your line, make the other driver do the hard work. Which, by the way, Lewis did with some grace.

Max was steering a lot… on the corner exit.

There wasn’t a great deal happening on the steering wheel until he was well past the apex and heading off into the scenery.

I’m happy for the sake of my own entertainment that Max didn’t get a penalty and Hamilton had to make a proper on-track pass, rather than just keeping within 5s of him up to the finish.  I’d just prefer for F1 drivers to be able to race hard but fair instead of it becoming a one-sided game of bumper cars.

roundthebend

I can't argue with that @Cols ;

TimmyO

Having watched the new footage, anyone who isn’t an F1 driver would be very hard pressed to draw any reliable conclusions from it - so the Reddit thread probably isn’t worth wading through - any pro pundits waded in yet? 

Fretwired

Cols said:

Max was steering a lot… on the corner exit.

There wasn’t a great deal happening on the steering wheel until he was well past the apex and heading off into the scenery.

I’m happy for the sake of my own entertainment that Max didn’t get a penalty and Hamilton had to make a proper on-track pass, rather than just keeping within 5s of him up to the finish.  I’d just prefer for F1 drivers to be able to race hard but fair instead of it becoming a one-sided game of bumper cars.

I agree with that - I think Max braked far too late and then couldn't turn in and missed the apex of the corner. Luckily there was a great open space for Lewis which enabled him to avoid a collision - now if that was a gravel trap ... game over.

As I said in another post I didn't have an issue with the move or the Stewards - if you want drivers to race hard at 180+ mph then this sort of racing incident will happen. There was plenty of run-off area so it wasn't dangerous and we were entertained as Lewis hunted down Max.

rlw

Not having driven an FI car, but having driven GT cars, I would have expected that wheel to have been turned more, and earlier, as it looks like no real effort was made not to run wide.

And knowing exactly where LH was, as he did, my view is that MV deliberately drove LH off the track.

FWIW.

fretmeister

Planet F1 have reported that Merc are formally requesting an investigation now that the footage is available!

Fun and games!

Dodge

fretmeister said:

Planet F1 have reported that Merc are formally requesting an investigation now that the footage is available!

Fun and games!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59310486

Simonh

There was no effort from Max to make the corner there or leave any "racing room" once he was a long way past ever being in the same post code as the apex he turned in hard with all the very predictable understeer to make it look right for the average viewer.

fretmeister

It's all very similar to Rosberg -v- Hamilton.

Were there penalties then?

sinbaadi

Hamilton was past, Max was not defending he was trying to retake the place.  When on earth would that pass ever stand as a straight up overtake?  It's ridiculous that the driver being passed gets these concessions to the rule for a lunge back up the inside or round the outside or whatever.

stickyfiddle

That Ham/Ros incident from Austria 2016. 10 second penalty and 2 black points for Nico back then 

Looks bloody familiar, doesn’t it

https://youtu.be/ixmGVL4dedI

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

That Ham/Ros incident from Austria 2016. 10 second penalty and 2 black points for Nico back then 

Looks bloody familiar, doesn’t it

Not really - Ham and Verstappen didn't crash into each other and it wasn't the last lap of the race. I'd also thought that in order to make the racing 'more exciting', the stewards were being more lenient these days. Had Ham held his ground and Verstappen crashed into him then Verstappen probably would have been given a penalty. As it is Ham eventually made an on-track overtake stick and won an exciting race. The look on Horner's face was priceless.

Wolff is just being a dick. He should be focusing on winning next week's race. Leave the moaning to Karen Horner and Marco the Mouth.

rlw

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

That Ham/Ros incident from Austria 2016. 10 second penalty and 2 black points for Nico back then 

Looks bloody familiar, doesn’t it

Not really - Ham and Verstappen didn't crash into each other and it wasn't the last lap of the race. I'd also thought that in order to make the racing 'more exciting', the stewards were being more lenient these days. Had Ham held his ground and Verstappen crashed into him then Verstappen probably would have been given a penalty. As it is Ham eventually made an on-track overtake stick and won an exciting race. The look on Horner's face was priceless.

Wolff is just being a dick. He should be focusing on winning next week's race. Leave the moaning to Karen Horner and Marco the Mouth.

Surely, Woolf is winding up Horner but also making the point that the rules should apply equally.

And why not try for a readjudication - it might work and get the team some advantage or another.

Fretwired

rlw said:

Surely, Woolf is winding up Horner but also making the point that the rules should apply equally.

And why not try for a readjudication - it might work and get the team some advantage or another.

Why bother? Ham won the race. Wolff just wants Verstappen to get a penalty. Why not beat him on track. IMHO Hamilton and Verstappen are evenly matched - just give Ham a fast car and let us the viewer be entertained as two top drivers battle each other on track. All this rule book, backroom skulduggery just damages F1 as a spectator sport.

stickyfiddle

Fretwired said:

rlw said:

Surely, Woolf is winding up Horner but also making the point that the rules should apply equally.

And why not try for a readjudication - it might work and get the team some advantage or another.

1 - Why bother? Ham won the race. Wolff just wants Verstappen to get a penalty.

2 - Why not beat him on track.

3 - IMHO Hamilton and Verstappen are evenly matched - just give Ham a fast car and let us the viewer be entertained as two top drivers battle each other on track.

4 - All this rule book, backroom skulduggery just damages F1 as a spectator sport.

1 - Because they can, and it's what RB already tried to do to them after Silverstone, except that Lewis had already got a penalty whereas Max didn't yet.

2 - Why not both? 

3 - Yes. But for these guys there are millions of dollars at stake

4 - It's always been part of F1. That's why they need a rulebook

PhilW1

Fretwired said:

Why bother? Ham won the race. Wolff just wants Verstappen to get a penalty. Why not beat him on track. IMHO Hamilton and Verstappen are evenly matched - just give Ham a fast car and let us the viewer be entertained as two top drivers battle each other on track. All this rule book, backroom skulduggery just damages F1 as a spectator sport.

Because Verstappen is the type to do what Schumacer did to to Hill and win by any means. 

breakstuff

Fretwired said:

Why bother? Ham won the race. Wolff just wants Verstappen to get a penalty. Why not beat him on track. IMHO Hamilton and Verstappen are evenly matched - just give Ham a fast car and let us the viewer be entertained as two top drivers battle each other on track. All this rule book, backroom skulduggery just damages F1 as a spectator sport.

If Max had been given a five second penalty, wouldn't he have finished in third place rather than second, thus closing the gap in the points table or am I just remembering the end of the race wrong?

stickyfiddle

breakstuff said:

Fretwired said:

Why bother? Ham won the race. Wolff just wants Verstappen to get a penalty. Why not beat him on track. IMHO Hamilton and Verstappen are evenly matched - just give Ham a fast car and let us the viewer be entertained as two top drivers battle each other on track. All this rule book, backroom skulduggery just damages F1 as a spectator sport.

If Max had been given a five second penalty, wouldn't he have finished in third place rather than second, thus closing the gap in the points table or am I just remembering the end of the race wrong?

Yep. Of course the counterargument is if he knew he'd get a pen then he'd have driven faster, but it wouldn't be the first time they've applied penalties after reviews conducted post-race; Lewis/Albon in Brazil 2019 gifting Sainz his first podium, and Max/Kimi in Austin in 2017 (or 2016?)

Boromedic

What would whinger spice do?

Mercedes should do the same after the way the FIA treated them over the whole weekend, plus pissing off Max is always a good idea as potentially he will self combust and do something daft. 

rlw

Fretwired said:

rlw said:

Surely, Woolf is winding up Horner but also making the point that the rules should apply equally.

And why not try for a readjudication - it might work and get the team some advantage or another.

Why bother? Ham won the race. Wolff just wants Verstappen to get a penalty. Why not beat him on track. IMHO Hamilton and Verstappen are evenly matched - just give Ham a fast car and let us the viewer be entertained as two top drivers battle each other on track. All this rule book, backroom skulduggery just damages F1 as a spectator sport.

It’s a spectator sport for two hours on race day and a business for the rest of the time.
And the politics and scheming add to it in a way making it slightly random.