The F1 thread

stickyfiddle

New Merc looks a little plain. I assume mostly a simplified show car, though the livery is great - none of the usual fades and transitions. 

Cols

@Boromedic - completely agree.  The race result was engineered in an opportunistic manner to the benefit of Verstappen and Netflix, however much the FIA would like to paint it as poor Michael getting it from all sides and simply making a bad call in the heat of the moment.

Abu Dhabi was simply the latest in a string of highly questionable decisions over the year; restarting the red flagged Baku race with two laps remaining, horse trading with Red Bull over Verstappen's restart grid place at the Saudi GP, repeatedly turning a blind eye to Verstappen's "out of the way, Max coming through" style of attack and defence, and worst of all having the nerve to run a couple of laps behind the safety car in the pouring rain of Spa and call it a "race".

The job of the Race Director is to ensure that the race weekend runs smoothly and that the circuit, cars and drivers all conform to the regulations.  Some of this Masi has done very well; there's seldom any issues with the circuit preparedness, for example.  

However, his race management has been increasingly marked by a strong theatrical streak and a direction to stack the deck in Max's favour.  I'd be amazed if this was an independent action; he's got his steer from higher up on what's expected of him.

On the point of the team bosses hectoring Masi - that's them doing their job.  Their objective is to ensure that their team's championship results are maximised at every race, and they're expected to use every tool at their disposal to achieve that.  If the race director has a "lines are always open" policy, then of course Wolff and Horner are going to use it to try and sway decisions to their benefit.

stickyfiddle

I'd forgotten about the Saudi grid drop barterting thing. 

I don't mind the teams using whatever powers they have to try and influence the race - that's part of the game. I have a much bigger issue when the rules aren't followed by the ref. 

Merc took a call not to pit Ham because they believed based on the rules that either a) they would get 1 or 2 racing laps but Max would have to get around 5 backmarkers before challenging Lewis, or b) they would red flag it and he'd get a free tyre change or c) there would be no racing laps because there wasn't time. 

Masi didn't follow the procedure in the way he'd personally argued for in previous races and that directly handed Max the lead of the race. This is the unfairness that the legion of Max fans refuse to see and it's hugely frustrating. I don't really care about the other stuff (though giving any points and a "win" for Spa is a joke, even though it technically granted our beloved George his first podium). After 30 years watching F1 I have drivers and teams I like more than others (indeed those often change over the years as well) but I don't really care who wins as long as it's a good - and fair - fight. That's what we lost in those last 3 laps in AD. 

Haych

Spa was a joke, results from that "race" should have been annulled.  But, of course, the results from that weekend went in the favour of Mucks MerdeSteppen, so..........

Emiel

stickyfiddle said:

New Merc looks a little plain. I assume mostly a simplified show car, though the livery is great - none of the usual fades and transitions. 

Compare these pictures to the actual car launch. They are vastly different (look at the floor, the side pods, etc). The press photos seem like the photoshopped FIA model (just like with the Red Bull).

stickyfiddle

Yeah, the real one was out at Silverstone today apparently. Definitely some differences in the small details - edge of the floor and front wing in particular. But either way it's a very different looking car to the Ferrari in parcticular.

I'm guessing they'll have upgraded basically everything by Bahrain as well. Can't wait!

Simonh

I was at Barcelona in 2019 with force india, they literally cut chunks out of the floor and epoxied new bits in as testing progressed depending on the feedback they got from the drivers and data feeds, it was awesome to watch.

Oh and nobody seemed to like Perez most people we spoke to in the team slagged him off and were nice about Ocon...

euan

stickyfiddle said:

I'd forgotten about the Saudi grid drop barterting thing. 

I don’t know why people still think this is what was happening. Actually I do, people still don’t understand what Masi’s roles were and what powers he actually had. 

He wasn’t bartering. He was allowing Red Bull to give up the place before the stewards forced them to. Which is the standard procedure for gaining a place off the track.

The Race Director has no power to investigate or punish incidents. 

skullfunkerry

euan said:

stickyfiddle said:

I'd forgotten about the Saudi grid drop barterting thing. 

I don’t know why people still think this is what was happening. Actually I do, people still don’t understand what Masi’s roles were and what powers he actually had. 

He wasn’t bartering. He was allowing Red Bull to give up the place before the stewards forced them to. Which is the standard procedure for gaining a place off the track.

The Race Director has no power to investigate or punish incidents. 

There was quite a lot said about this at the time, but I did read that apparently that's quite common and has been for some time, going back to the days of Charlie Whiting as well; it just wasn't broadcast.

stickyfiddle

euan said:

stickyfiddle said:

I'd forgotten about the Saudi grid drop barterting thing. 

I don’t know why people still think this is what was happening. Actually I do, people still don’t understand what Masi’s roles were and what powers he actually had. 

He wasn’t bartering. He was allowing Red Bull to give up the place before the stewards forced them to. Which is the standard procedure for gaining a place off the track.

The Race Director has no power to investigate or punish incidents. 

I do know and understand that. But the way it was phrased (and the fact that it was broadcast) suggested it was a potential negotiation. 

I'd bet £100 that Whiting would have said "Accept a grid drop or I'll refer it to the stewards"

euan

Whiting wouldn't have said that though, because he would have been acting as a conduit for the stewards just like Masi was. Masi was passing the message on from them, that's why he sounded uncertain when Red Bull questioned it, via their attempt to negotiate on the grid drop. His role as messenger was demeaning to him and the race director role tbh.

sinbaadi

Good to see a bit of variation in design. Love the scalloped sides of the Ferrari.

Low(ish) profile tyres are a big deal, too.  

Can't wait to see who got it most right on the first attempt, but it's going to be by sheer luck that we get two teams closely matched at the top, if that is what happens.

stickyfiddle

Andretti has applied to enter a new team from 2024. Fantastic news

Cols

stickyfiddle said:

Andretti has applied to enter a new team from 2024. Fantastic news

Happy days for the existing teams; Andretti will have to pay a $200 million entry fee which will be distributed among the existing teams before the car has even turned a wheel.  Nice payday.

markr76

stickyfiddle said:

Andretti has applied to enter a new team from 2024. Fantastic news

I wouldn’t be surprised if he takes over the Haas team instead of starting a new team. It comes across that Gene Haas is loosing interest. 

stickyfiddle

markr76 said:

stickyfiddle said:

Andretti has applied to enter a new team from 2024. Fantastic news

I wouldn’t be surprised if he takes over the Haas team instead of starting a new team. It comes across that Gene Haas is loosing interest. 

Yeah, could be a possibility. I'd rather have another team, but I would be fine with Andretti Racing replacing Haas rather than any other team.

markr76

stickyfiddle said:

markr76 said:

stickyfiddle said:

Andretti has applied to enter a new team from 2024. Fantastic news

I wouldn’t be surprised if he takes over the Haas team instead of starting a new team. It comes across that Gene Haas is loosing interest. 

Yeah, could be a possibility. I'd rather have another team, but I would be fine with Andretti Racing replacing Haas rather than any other team.

Yeah that would be the ideal thing. The more teams the better!

musicegbdf

I would like to see some of the younger keen drivers divebomb MV so he can get some if his own medicine. Maybe then they will take some action on this unsafe move.

sinbaadi

musicegbdf said:

I would like to see some of the younger keen drivers divebomb MV so he can get some if his own medicine. Maybe then they will take some action on this unsafe move.

No harm in a divebomb as such!  A proper late braking pass is an epic moment.

Max isn't at his worst whilst passing aggressively.  It's his arrogance when being challenged for a position that really annoys me.  He will either: open the steering and run a car off on the outside intentionally and unnecessarily (and as the "defending car" he gets away with it) or, if he's on the outside, he will feign being run off the road and cut the corner/complain and get Horner to whine enough to get the position handed back.

Boromedic