The F1 thread

danishbacon

So, given what we know about the culture at RB, what other team on the grid do we think Max would thrive in?

Brio

Aston Martin. Fun seeing him fitting in with the Strolls.

stickyfiddle

Alpine - he & Flav could share tips on how to be a massive dickhead

boogieman

Brio said:

Aston Martin. Fun seeing him fitting in with the Strolls.

Daaaaadddy!! Max keeps beating me!!!! It’s so not fair! Make him stop!!  

fretmeister

Newey is going to be ordered to build a car that suits Stroll's driving style...



Still, if Max manages to win in that, I'd be impressed!  

Cols

Red Bull did one to suit Max’s driving style.

sinbaadi

Boromedic said:

I hope they put Yuki in the Red Bull, then watch as he fails to make Q3.... He's not much of an improvement on Liam in any way other than experience because he's had longer in the sport. 

Why do you hope this will happen? Genuinely curious.

Wouldn't it be better entertainment if Max has a rival in the team?

Boromedic

It would be, but Yuki is no better than Perez or indeed Lawson, Gasly, Albon or the others. I've stated before and I'll state it again, the car makes Q3 and does well in races as Max extracts the most out of it. He's infuriatingly consistent but I can't help but admire it though. 

I think from previous interactions you don't think the driver makes that big of a difference, the Red Bull proves otherwise for me. If Red Bull could make a switch to a driver like George, Lando or Charles they would threaten Max more, but Yuki is not that good I'm afraid, he would've had the seat otherwise. If his pace was that good they would tolerate the temperament issues, and I'd love to see someone challenge Max more often, but none of the Red Bull stable is that good.

sinbaadi

I do think the driver makes a difference, but cars can flatter drivers and not the other way around. 

A brilliant driver can extract the maximum (or very close to it) from a car and win a race.  
A brilliant car can be driven by a lesser driver and still win a race. 

I'm with you on one thing, overall results don't determine how good a driver is, there's a lot of subjectivity to that.  Their performance against their teammates does, for sure, that's the difference that they can make as a driver.  Alonso is as good a driver today, in the doldrums at AM, as he would be if they had put a car on track that won the title twice in the last few years.  Max is as good this year as he was last year.  Not winning races doesn't change that for him any more than it does for any of the other drivers.  The McLaren is better, not Norris and Piastri.  That's F1.

Max is brilliant, without a doubt.  He can't win the title without a good enough car, though. If it wins then it is good enough.  There is no 101% of the available performance.

I don't think Tsunoda is special enough to beat him, I agree there, but I want Max to be tested, because until now he's been so isolated from legitimate comparisons with other drivers, all the while scooping up the silverware and accolades.

Boromedic

Oh don't get me wrong, I'd love Max to have had team mates like Lewis and Alonso have had that are on the same level, would be amazing to see. Unfortunately the Red Bull field is barren!

Max is on a par with Alonso in respect that they can extract the maximum available from the machinery given, Lewis lacks that little bit but has other strengths. Vettel is a good example, kind of like Dani Ric, stupidly quick in one version of the regs but not so much in others. Machinery definitely matters, but you can guarantee some drivers will maximise any opportunity.

Paul_C

My feeling is that it's not so much down to driver style, or design but far more whether or not the car can be set up and driven in such a way as to "switch on" the tyres.

If they went back to using Bridgestone or Michelin (or the good old days of Goodyear) there wouldn't be half as much trouble for the drivers.

fretmeister

I remember the mad old days when the drivers could do what they liked with the tyres.

I still remember Senna picking one compound for the left side of the car and a different one for the right.

goldtop

Tsunoda gets the 2nd RB car for Japan.

Cols

goldtop said:

Tsunoda gets the 2nd RB car for Japan.

Bloody harsh after only 2 races in Red Bull.  But logically, Tsunoda should have been the first choice after thrashing all of his team mates since Gasly, including Lawson.

The cynic in me suspects that Honda may have greased the wheels a little to get Yuki in the car for Suzuka.

Boromedic

Wow, has that been confirmed @goldtop , harsh if so, Cols might be onto something with the Honda thing too. They've obviously gone away and found nothing in the data to support Liam which is a shame, but he needs more time and this will just harm him further. 

I don't think Tsunoda is going to look any better though, I have to say. Hope to be proved wrong, but Suzuka in a bitch of a car is going to be tough.

goldtop

@Boromedic ;

Not officially AFAICS, but now being more widely reported than when I first saw it last night, e.g.:

RiftAmps

Four possible outcomes here:

1) Tsunoda is immediately fast, gets on top of the Red Bull and delivers results just behind Max, taking points off Merc/Ferrari/McLaren

2) Tsunoda is mediocre but fairs better than Lawson did, justifies the swap for at least another 6 races.

3) Lawson does a Yuki and outperforms the second Red Bull in the (slower) VCARB, giving Marko and Horner an even bigger headache.

4) Lawson shits the bed even further, still qualifying at the back and they bring in Colapinto.


I want #1 but #2 is most realistic.

fretmeister

RB kind of have to do this as an experiment. At some point Max is going to leave. Retirement or another team.
If RB have really built a car so specific for him that nobody else can drive then they need to know and deal with it, otherwise they'll never get another constructors title even if they win the drivers' one.

stickyfiddle

RiftAmps said:

Four possible outcomes here:

1) Tsunoda is immediately fast, gets on top of the Red Bull and delivers results just behind Max, taking points off Merc/Ferrari/McLaren

2) Tsunoda is mediocre but fairs better than Lawson did, justifies the swap for at least another 6 races.

3) Lawson does a Yuki and outperforms the second Red Bull in the (slower) VCARB, giving Marko and Horner an even bigger headache.

4) Lawson shits the bed even further, still qualifying at the back and they bring in Colapinto.


I want #1 but #2 is most realistic.

Also Yuki may suck just as hard as Lawson, which I think is fairly likely 

HAL9000

TimmyO said:

I'm on record as 'not a Max fan' but I can't swallow the 'he'd be rubbish if...' stuff. There's just no evidence for it. At those levels of talent I think it's far more likely that he'd find a way to do well. 

Anyone that can earn three world titles is clearly a decent driver.