Removing DPF filter from a Ford Mondeo

mike_l

^^As long as the emmissions fall into line. Apart from the braking efficiency and emmissions everything else is visual on an MOT. A tester is (theoretically) not allowed to repair anything during the test (even changing a bulb). Having a service done at the same time as the MOT does allow these things to be done.

FX_Munkee

I'll second what @mike_l has said about the pressure sensor, although it should have been the garages first port of call IMHO.
Not sure if the ford units use extra injected fuel or Eolys for the regeneration. If it's the latter you have those extra bits to consider in the diagnosis.
As for using the "change gear now"  lights, that should be fine as well. You don't need to drive it constantly in "italian tune up" mode. The ecu should start the regeneration cycle when required and conditions allow (on one of your motorway journeys when the ecu senses a high enough rpm for long enough, would be normal).

joneve

FX_Munkee said:

I'll second what @mike_l has said about the pressure sensor, although it should have been the garages first port of call IMHO.
Not sure if the ford units use extra injected fuel or Eolys for the regeneration. If it's the latter you have those extra bits to consider in the diagnosis.
As for using the "change gear now"  lights, that should be fine as well. You don't need to drive it constantly in "italian tune up" mode. The ecu should start the regeneration cycle when required and conditions allow (on one of your motorway journeys when the ecu senses a high enough rpm for long enough, would be normal).

The Ford ones are cunts, apparently as they don't have the extra injected fuel, it has a ceramic surround on the filter which has to get hot enough for the re-gen to start, or so I've read. 

ROOG

Sorry to hear of your plight @joneve I hope you find a reasonable solution, it is very frustrating that you have to drive in "a particular way" for your car to remain reliable in this day an age. Progress? I'm not convinced.

I recon the tax rules on company cars have their part to play in this. Our Firm's whole fleet is diesel at the owners individual choice, sorry thats not quite true, we do have one BMW i3 !

I've tried to buy a couple of 3 or 4 year old cars for my wife and daughter over the last few years and the choice of petrols (for round town use) is much more limited than it used to be.

Based on my experience of 'the Firm's fleet' I would be nervous about buying a 3 or4  year old diesel they seem to have attracted a lot of techy solutions and aren't as reliable as they should be.

Its no comfort I know, but my old SAAB 95 tdi (company car of old) had problems with the dpf, the main dealer struggled to fix it, I expect they replaced it in the end.

 

mike_l

The fluid is injected into the diesel, which (in simple terms) catches the "dirty emmissions" which get scrubbed by the filter. Turning (in theory) a dirty diesel emmission into a delicate unicorns fart loaded with glitter.

BTW I sell 3-4 of the sensors per week, but not many of the actual filters.

joneve

mike_l said:

The fluid is injected into the diesel, which (in simple terms) catches the "dirty emmissions" which get scrubbed by the filter. Turning (in theory) a dirty diesel emmission into a delicate unicorns fart loaded with glitter.

BTW I sell 3-4 of the sensors per week, but not many of the actual filters.

How much should one of the sensors set me back? 

Can I bring it to you to fix? As you seem to not be a cunt (well, when it comes to fixing cars )

mike_l

If you can get to Cambridge I'll do it for you....

The Peugeot sensor is £53-04 inc VAT.

 

joneve

Hmm...Are you open on Saturday's? We are due to come down to Cambridge next weekend. 

I assume you put the cost of the Peugeot sensor to give me an idea of price, as I assume I'll need the Ford one? *confused*

musicegbdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulphur_Emission_Control_Area

Crunchman you might find this interesting. It is going to increase the cost of both imports and our exports to the world market , whilst China continues to pump out noxous gases .

However , we should lead by example.

 I think the issue with the DPF is we have all been misled by the government and Motor industry . We were led to believe Diesel was the new clean fuel. Instead we have to blast up and down motorways for no reason , or replace the DPF which I understand has exepnsive materials to make it work. So more DPF's have to be made. How is that good for the environment.

We need to see better public transport , so we don't need so many cars. I work in Logistics and I try very hard to use freight on the railway system . It is hopeless , so we send hundreds of trucks thousands of miles every day burning hundreds of gallons of diesel.

As to Black Cabs , I thought they all have DPF's now.. Can't recall seeing the old black cloud from them anymore.? Could be wrong though

We can then only have cars for fun and drive 7 Litre Mustangs ....

crunchman

There isn't much shipping left in London.  The biggest problem with the air is diesel exhausts.   Whatever you think of the official stats my own nose tells me that the air in London stinks, and you don't need to be a genius to work out that the clouds of black smoke you see coming from some diesels are not healthy.

musicegbdf said:

 I think the issue with the DPF is we have all been misled by the government and Motor industry . We were led to believe Diesel was the new clean fuel. Instead we have to blast up and down motorways for no reason , or replace the DPF which I understand has exepnsive materials to make it work. So more DPF's have to be made. How is that good for the environment.

Agree completely.  The government has made it worse with its fixation with CO2 in the car tax bands.  If they included nitrous oxides (and possibly particulates) then diesels wouldn't be so much cheaper.  I'm not entirely sure what to make of the whole global warming debate - I tend to think it has been exaggerated - but air pollution in our cities is a real problem that no-one should be able to argue about (although some will undoubtedly try).  The problem with the political fixation with global warming is that they only think about CO2.

musicegbdf said:

As to Black Cabs , I thought they all have DPF's now.. Can't recall seeing the old black cloud from them anymore.? Could be wrong though

Even diesels with DPFs are not particularly nice.  All diesels have had them for several years with the Euro 5 standard.  The Euro 6 standard is tighter but the problem with that is that the tests that are applied are, at best, not representative of actual driving - see the the first link I posted above.  At worst the manufacturers are fiddling them with software - see the second link.

Diesels make sense in some contexts.  If I still lived in a rural area in Devon then I might have one, but in cities they are a real problem.

The expense of making the new ones compliant with the Euro 6 standard is making them a lot more expensive to buy than a petrol (around £2000).  Yes, you might get £1000 more back when you sell the car on, but you'd still have to do a lot of miles to save £1000 on fuel.

The best way of cleaning up our cities would be to get a lot more short journeys made by bike:
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2014/oct/16/why-cyling-is-great-for-everyone-not-just-cyclists

Iamnobody

How did these pan out in the end @joneve ?

I was speaking to my regular spanner man in the week (who I trust a lot). He says he has got great results using terraclean to clean out blocked dpf's.

I forgot to ask the cost but from what he said it compares very favourably to the £2k for a new one.

Phil_aka_Pip

FX_Munkee said:

As for the legality of this, the new MOT regs. state that "if a DPF was fitted as standard, it must be present" 

does "present" mean connected and operating? You could argue that it is still present, even if not connected and operating - just don't remove it from the vehicle. Does "present" mean in it's originally fitted location, or present on the passenger seat at the time of the test?

FX_Munkee

Phil_aka_Pip said:

FX_Munkee said:

As for the legality of this, the new MOT regs. state that "if a DPF was fitted as standard, it must be present" 

does "present" mean connected and operating? You could argue that it is still present, even if not connected and operating - just don't remove it from the vehicle. Does "present" mean in it's originally fitted location, or present on the passenger seat at the time of the test?

"present" is used to intermate, "in it's original location". As for how operational the DPF is, there's no way an MOT examiner can tell as they're not allowed to disassemble anything. ie if it looks like it's the right thing and it looks like it's in the right place, that's a pass.

mike_l

FX_Munkee said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

"present" is used to intermate, "in it's original location". As for how operational the DPF is, there's no way an MOT examiner can tell as they're not allowed to disassemble anything. ie if it looks like it's the right thing and it looks like it's in the right place, that's a pass.

Unless the emmissions are too high.........

FX_Munkee

mike_l said:

FX_Munkee said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

"present" is used to intermate, "in it's original location". As for how operational the DPF is, there's no way an MOT examiner can tell as they're not allowed to disassemble anything. ie if it looks like it's the right thing and it looks like it's in the right place, that's a pass.

Unless the emmissions are too high.........

It's only a visible smoke test that it might fail, that's all the DPF affects and if the car has been remapped properly* it should pass emissions and smoke test better than a standard production car.

* by properly I mean "tuned" and not someone just downloading a generic map onto the ECU a la most of the "remapping" companies out there.

ThePrettyDamned

crunchman said:

Sorry if I went off on one. I just get fed up having to cycle behind diesels belching out clouds of black smoke.  I think the air in London is worse now than it was when I first moved here 25 years ago.

I had pretty bad asthma in London, but since moving away I've magically never needed my inhaler  

joneve

Iamnobody said:

How did these pan out in the end @joneve ?

I was speaking to my regular spanner man in the week (who I trust a lot). He says he has got great results using terraclean to clean out blocked dpf's.

I forgot to ask the cost but from what he said it compares very favourably to the £2k for a new one.

Bit the bullet and took it to a main stealer in the end, as their diagnostics equipment can pin point the exact issue as they are ford specific (which I didn't know, I just assumed diagnostics were the same all the way around). Vaporiser was broken, so I had to pay £400 for replacement and fitting and after asking around it seems it wasn't a bad price to pay (part alone was £200ish). So hopefully all sorted now.

crunchman

ThePrettyDamned said:

crunchman said:

Sorry if I went off on one. I just get fed up having to cycle behind diesels belching out clouds of black smoke.  I think the air in London is worse now than it was when I first moved here 25 years ago.

I had pretty bad asthma in London, but since moving away I've magically never needed my inhaler  

Saw an article today that says the mayor of Paris wants to ban diesels completely from the centre of the city by 2020!  Still not enough to make me want to move there though.

thomasross20

I think you just put me off buying a diesel...