Wolves!

digitalscream

Just had an awesome day out at the UK Wolf Conservation Trust, walking with a small pack of wolves.

Many, many highlights of the day, but for now it's enough to say that it was quite the experience. Here's one photo as a teaser:

To give you an idea, that wolf in the centre was about 3 feet from me, and while we were walking round the wolves were just mingling amongst everyone.

boogieman

Awesome! Would love to try that, looks an amazing place.

digitalscream

boogieman said:

Awesome! Would love to try that, looks an amazing place.

Link added to the original post. It really is a great place, and I'd highly recommend it to anybody remotely interested in nature. At one point, we came across a few deer who - on seeing the wolves - promptly legged it. Then one of the wolves found a pheasant in the undergrowth; said pheasant flew off pretty quick-smart and I could have sworn it was shouting "SHITSHITSHITSHITSHITSHITSHIT" as it flapped away

Not a particularly cheap day out - £120 for two people, £40 for each additional guest - but personally I'd say it was absolutely worth every penny.

boogieman

Cheers for the link, I shall investigate further.

randomhandclaps

Funny enough currently watching a program on BBC4 about wolves.  Would really love to go there so shall investigate.

Deijavoo

Where was that, Wolverhampton?

Thank you, thank you, I'm here all night....

randomhandclaps

^Howler^

digitalscream

It's quite surprising - in the photos they look very much like large dogs, but when you're walking around with them you get the sense that they're very much not like dogs at all. It's almost a feeling of an underlying wildness; not menace, but not so safe that you'd want to play with them like dogs, if you see what I mean.

Also...on a more personally relevant note, it occurs to me to wonder how evolution managed to get from wolves to chihuahuas.

xmrchi

Wow, break some the myths... What are they really like?

bazxkr

Looks like a great day out....beautiful creatures altho somewehat scary & the look on that one at the front is clearly saying you don't want to mess with me !

Take a look at this 5 min video.... makes you realise the natural effect on nature animals create that we humans reverse & destroy...who would think wolves can change the direction rivers take ??

randomhandclaps

digitalscream said:

It's quite surprising - in the photos they look very much like large dogs, but when you're walking around with them you get the sense that they're very much not like dogs at all. It's almost a feeling of an underlying wildness; not menace, but not so safe that you'd want to play with them like dogs, if you see what I mean.

That's one of the main reason I'd like to go there.  I used to and still occasionally do train dogs for people.  I have spent my life around dogs and as a result no dog really holds any fear for me and I think I am probably quite often guilty of slipping into believing that they are just big wild dogs.  It really takes me back to see the fear they hold for people who actually have to live in the same environment and part of me would like to be reminded of that dividing line.

digitalscream

mrchi said:

Wow, break some the myths... What are they really like?

Well, for a start they're not the aggressive killers that they're often portrayed as. They're actually quite timid creatures; far more intelligent than a lot of wild animals, so they'll assess any situation and if there's any risk involved at all they'll stay away. 

Also...the idea that the alpha wolf is aggressive is complete crap. The one in the far left of the photo above is the alpha, and she pretty much kept her distance for the whole time so she could keep an eye on the others and everybody who was there.

Interestingly, they have a lot of mannerisms that are exactly the same as domesticated dogs, but they mean completely different things. For example, when you're introduced to you, they'll sniff your hands and clothes to get your scent, but sometimes they'll put their head up or even stand on their hind legs - it doesn't actually mean they like you and want some fuss, but rather they're trying to smell your breath to get more information about you.

They also have amazing memories. One of them (in the centre above) went through all of us sniffing and working out who we are right at the beginning. Then, half way through the walk they gave the wolves a break and we all went to one corner of a field while the guides explained more about the history of the place. When the wolves came back to us, that same wolf went through everybody again but missed us out (we were behind a couple of other people). When he got to the end, he went to walk away and then stopped abruptly and made a beeline for us - the guides explained that he does that sometimes. It's because he knows who was there at the start and wanted to make sure that we were still there (probably as an "I don't want to be surprised later on" thing).

Contrast that with the fact that you could've replaced half of the people there and I wouldn't have noticed

digitalscream

bazxkr said:

Looks like a great day out....beautiful creatures altho somewehat scary & the look on that one at the front is clearly saying you don't want to mess with me !

Actually, that's his happy look - I've got a video from shortly after that where he flopped onto his side for some fuss from his handler

In terms of safety, they're all on slip chains. You'll notice that the guy at the front is holding the middle of the chain; they all have two handlers. The one at the front controls them, and the one at the back is there as a spotter to give the first handler a heads-up as to things they won't have seen (since they're focusing on the wolf) and as a last resort if there's a problem.

Here's one from around the same time:

That was just after the wolf had come up to us and jumped up at my daughter (pictured). He was just trying to get a bit more info about her, but the handler caught it and then persuaded Lana to come out and have a photo with him so that she wasn't so worried.

zenzeypher

I owned a wolf-cross for 6 years (under the dangerous animals license act) she eventually succumbed to cancer of the hind leg which eventually spread to her lungs.

Eventually when she was about 7 or 8 she began living in the house, one of the most most gentle and docile creatures i've ever had the experience of sharing life with.

She must of gotten her mothers looks and her dads temperament. she was half timber half Siberian husky. Her breeding is shown in her tail, always straight always down, in the winter she has this massive brown scraggy coat come through which youd find attached to anything made of fiber.

very intelligent, couldn't hide food from her, trained very well and quickly. Could never bark although she tried a few times and just produced an odd squeak which is very odd for such a large dog,

She slept with her paws on the wall, fed herself ( a diet of natural things she would find in her habitat) also shared living space with 3 ferrets, cat and a fox and they all got on famously till she was ill.

after a few years she was docile enough to take out and about etc. When she was super ill I had to shoulder carry her to the vets. 

Thanks for sharing, im not some lamo with wolf pictures and stuff all over the house, I just really miss my mate.

The shedding tho' my God the shedding.

this is her about a month after her 1st of many ops after a trip back from the groomers ( should never groom them but her undercoat was causing problems with the wound etc) having 3/4 of her coat taken off - think it took about 3 hours to do aha.

TTony

digitalscream said:

Also...on a more personally relevant note, it occurs to me to wonder how evolution managed to get from wolves to chihuahuas.

Nature isn't perfect ...

[edit]

sorry - cheap!

I did see a TV documentary a while back about how dogs evolved from the wild, how many generations it took to achieve a full evolution even in very controlled/managed circumstances, and how we humans have deliberately cross-bred dogs to get what we wanted from a breed.

Are there still any wild wolves in the UK ???

Bogwhoppit

 

TTony said:

Are there still any wild wolves in the UK ???

They're called teenagers in my house !

digitalscream

zenzeypher said:

Thanks for sharing, im not some lamo with wolf pictures and stuff all over the house, I just really miss my mate.

I can see why. I know she's knackered in that video, but she looks like an amazing animal.

TTony said:

Nature isn't perfect ...

[edit]

sorry - cheap!

I did see a TV documentary a while back about how dogs evolved from the wild, how many generations it took to achieve a full evolution even in very controlled/managed circumstances, and how we humans have deliberately cross-bred dogs to get what we wanted from a breed.

Are there still any wild wolves in the UK ???

These wolves aren't domesticated - the three you see in the photos above were raised by humans (that's why they're largely safe to walk with), as are the Arctics they also have there. However, there are a few others they have who are in captivity but only in the sense that they have a safe environment they can call their own and don't have to scavenge for food.

There are definitely lots of wild wolves in Europe and the Americas, though.

ICBM

TTony said:

Are there still any wild wolves in the UK ???

Not unless any have escaped from illegal ownership. The last true wild wolf in the UK was probably killed in 1680 in Glen Garry in Scotland.

Not just wolves - most of the other wild animals of the northern forests of America and Asia were native to Britain as well - bears, lynx, beaver, moose. Humans wiped them all out .

Sambostar

Wow, I'II be going there in late November if they're open then thanks.

Surprisingly small though eh.  I mean the German Shepherds down at the farm are bigger than that.

I went to an animal sanctuary in Virginia, they had a coyote pen right next to a wolf pen, the poor old coyote was going shit bat crazy with all the wolf scent.  That is my definition of cruel.

However I'm not a great advocator of releasing loads of wolves in the wild.  They do eat people and they are smart

If you have ever been surrounded by a pack of 20 odd dogs you know how they operate.  Course it all depends on the pack leader, but if he is a psycho or a man hater, you've had it, unless you can defend yourself.  Cunning too, they'll circle you and the bolder ones, usually the pack leader or a psycho alpha will close in, one by one and have a test nip to gauge your reaction, all the while the ones behind you are creeping up, whilst the others hold your attention.  Then, if they think they can have you and they are all in place, it suddenly gets mental and frenzied as the killing begins.  The worst thing about is you can't act, they can smell fear and vulnerability.

Of course, it's all fine when the owners are around and you have been invited in.

No, bollocks to releasing wolves in the wild.

digitalscream

@Sambostar - those were the smaller wolves. The Arctics are friggin' MASSIVE.

Sambostar

Now I'm shitting myself.  Yeah I was thinking they are about the size, if a touch bigger than a coyote.

Plenty of stories about relatives arriving in Canada many years ago, saying they'd walk and declining a lift at night in the backwoods and the locals insisting they get in, as they wolves will eat them.  Also plenty of cases of people being chased and hunted down by them.  They are just like us. or teenage versions of us. it is usually the psycho alphas that do the dirty work I thought.

But yeah, just because there are some semi tame ones raised in a sanctuary, doesn't mean I am about to embrace the entire species with love.  Just like just because my neighbour is friendly, doesn't mean I'm going to trust Islamic extremists because they are human too.

Wish they had televised the fight scene in the closing ,minutes of The Grey with Liam Neeson, rather than fading to black and then cutting to a dying wolf in the closing credits.  You know when he was tooled up with broken bottles and a knife taped to his hands.  That would have been interesting to watch.