New watch

thermionic

RaymondLin said:

I am not saying these automatic watches don't keep time, but they are not as accurate as an Quartz.  That is a fact that you cannot deny.

That was my point, if the point is if you value time keeping above everything else then what reason would you use to get an automatic?

You make it sound like quartz watches are 100% accurate 100% of the time, which they're clearly not. I correct my automatic every 2-3 weeks, but I also had to correct my quartz every couple of months as well. Nothing in it, in the grand scheme of things, and an automatic that's 10s out is just as accurate as a quartz that's 10s out.

There are many reasons I prefer my automatic -  I never have to send it away for two weeks every 3-4 years to replace the battery for £40 for a start. Oh and no battery to leak which has rendered the watch uneconomical to repair.

RaymondLin

thermionic said:

RaymondLin said:

I am not saying these automatic watches don't keep time, but they are not as accurate as an Quartz.  That is a fact that you cannot deny.

That was my point, if the point is if you value time keeping above everything else then what reason would you use to get an automatic?

You make it sound like quartz watches are 100% accurate 100% of the time, which they're clearly not. I correct my automatic every 2-3 weeks, but I also had to correct my quartz every couple of months as well. Nothing in it, in the grand scheme of things, and an automatic that's 10s out is just as accurate as a quartz that's 10s out.

There are many reasons I prefer my automatic -  I never have to send it away for two weeks every 3-4 years to replace the battery for £40 for a start. Oh and no battery to leak which has rendered the watch uneconomical to repair.

Kinetic solves that problem, it doesn't actually have a battery, it has a capacitor i believe to hold power.

As for not paying £40 to replace a battery lol, have you checked a service charge for something like an Omega?  it is about 10x times that much !

There are many reasons to prefer automatic, I like the sweep, that's a reason, I like the tiny little tick you can hear, I have 3 of them.  I understand the attraction of an automatic.  I am not saying they are redundant.   I am merely saying people who buy them, especially the ones costing thousands and thousands, are fooling themselves for getting a "time piece".  It's obvious they don't spend that much for a time piece but more a status symbol or a statement.  Again, nothing wrong with that either, it's their money.  

Col_Decker

Handsome_Chris said:

I knew that I should have got one of these:

http://www.vostok-europe.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Orange-Lunokhod1.png

Are you Ben10?

 

 

 

 

stickyfiddle

If you want accuracy you need one of these:

http://m2.timefy.com/img/p1/365-2855-casio-classic-black-f-91w-1cr-.jpg

Neil

RaymondLin said:

thermionic said:

RaymondLin said:

I am not saying these automatic watches don't keep time, but they are not as accurate as an Quartz.  That is a fact that you cannot deny.

That was my point, if the point is if you value time keeping above everything else then what reason would you use to get an automatic?

You make it sound like quartz watches are 100% accurate 100% of the time, which they're clearly not. I correct my automatic every 2-3 weeks, but I also had to correct my quartz every couple of months as well. Nothing in it, in the grand scheme of things, and an automatic that's 10s out is just as accurate as a quartz that's 10s out.

There are many reasons I prefer my automatic -  I never have to send it away for two weeks every 3-4 years to replace the battery for £40 for a start. Oh and no battery to leak which has rendered the watch uneconomical to repair.

Kinetic solves that problem, it doesn't actually have a battery, it has a capacitor i believe to hold power.

As for not paying £40 to replace a battery lol, have you checked a service charge for something like an Omega?  it is about 10x times that much !

There are many reasons to prefer automatic, I like the sweep, that's a reason, I like the tiny little tick you can hear, I have 3 of them.  I understand the attraction of an automatic.  I am not saying they are redundant.   I am merely saying people who buy them, especially the ones costing thousands and thousands, are fooling themselves for getting a "time piece".  It's obvious they don't spend that much for a time piece but more a status symbol or a statement.  Again, nothing wrong with that either, it's their money.  

A kinetic capacitor is a battery, it is just a rechargeable battery.

I owned a couple when they first came out and they had a lot of problems with the capacitors running out of power so they were replaced with ordinary batteries!

Nowadays they work fine but like rechargeable batteries the capacitors do not last forever and will eventually need replacing. 

Personally I prefer a straight quartz as it is far less to go wrong and when the batteries die I replace them myself. 

Regarding mechanical watches, inverted snobbery aside, have you ever thought that we are surrounded by electronic stuff like computers, smart phones etc etc all day every day and some people like the thought of using something that isn't like that sort of stuff? 

Something that possibly harks back to an age when it was a feat of engineering to make something that is 99.8% accurate with minuscule gears and levers rather than a quartz watch that is just a printed circuit with a battery?

A decent COSC mechanicals rate is -4 /+6 seconds per day is that not accurate enough?

Lets be honest any timepiece that keeps time to less than a minute a day will be fine for everyday life. Where do you have to be that is counted in seconds?

The other aspect not yet mentioned is longevity.

A good quality mechanical watch can last forever. Chilli's Rolex could be passed down his family for decades.

The reason being a mechanical watch can have any part that wears out (after decades if at all) made by a watchmaker whereas an expensive quartz based watch that may require parts when the movements are obsolete will just be chucked away. Seiko only keep parts for ten years.

I have pocket watches here that are a hundred years old and still run to time. 

The difference between buying  a fine mechanical watch and a cheap quartz is the difference between the throwaway society and something more permanent.

But to get up to date, I still have some modern watches, "ridiculous" divers that go deeper than any man could stand and I don't even dive myself!

However as fine pieces of engineering they have no peer. 

They do however have the added benefit of increasing in value over time so you can in fact own them for free.

I paid £1600 second hand for the Sea Dweller about seven years ago today they go for £4K.

You can't do that with a quartz either. 

chillidoggy

>How do you think @Chillidoggy knows when the time to fill his sails with wind so to cross the start line in his sailing race, or 'regatta' as I believe the french call it.;Yachtmaster II indeed, I bet Chilli isn't even a Day Skipper (RYA reference). Really Chris! 40 years in the marine world, me. And champion two years on the trot at my sailing club. I didn't get that by not knowing when to start the race!

RaymondLin

Re - accuracy.

It is not that 4-6 seconds a day is not accurate.  it is that it loses 4-6 seconds a day, they add up.  A month means 2 to 3 minutes, that's huge.  As for when I need this accuracy?  I catch the train everyday, I like to know EXACTLY to the minute when the train leaves, I know the time it takes to walk to and from the station to the exact minute (12min - home side, 15min - work side), 3 mins out is 1/4 out, that is massive.  I guess I am used to growing up in HK, when a train is 30secons later, it is late.  As opposed in England, they need to be 30 mins before it can be technically considered late !!! I really don't like to adjusting my watch every few weeks, it actually bugs me.  Because I know the time on my wrist is not accurate, I know the time is roughly the right time, but i also know it is not the correct time.  I never had that problem with my old Seiko.  I choose to live with it because I don't put time keeping as the main priority and have my phone as back up.

As for the passing it to your children, lol, seriously, lol. I laugh because I see that as an excuse every time.  EVERYTIME.  Why a watch? Why does it need to be an expensive watch?  You can pass anything to your children, does it have to be a watch?  Your children should treausre everything that is dear to you when you pass it on.  Why watches?  Is it some kind of symbolism ? Does it even have to be an expensive watch?  Sentimentalty knows no moneytory value.  I would treasure a broken casio if that's what my dad gives when he goes. 

In terms of the value going up.  Again, that is another common response.  Because if investment is a reason to buy watches, how come you are not swimming in the stuff, buying it in bulk and selling it on to make a living?  The fact is that watches are a terrible thing to "invest".  It is not a bad item to "park" your money.  So after adjusting to inflation, after the service costs, how much has it really cost you really? As opposed to compare pure numbers from one year to another, these Rolex needs a service around 5 years or so and they costs like £500.  You also forget to add the fact the reason of its value going up is purely to do with Rolex hiking up their new prices, so it automatically make the secondhand market price goes up, nothing to do with it being rare or exclusive.  In short, if when I buy a watch, I don't think to myself....in 7 years it would be worth this much.  Because you simply don't know.  If you knew, you would be a fool not to buy a thounsand of them surely.  It's just lucky that it went up that much.  There are plenty of Omega watches from the 60's and 70's you can pick up for like £500 too.  I even see lots of collecollectors who has many expensive watches and say how they bought them for X and now they are worth Y.  My question is why are you not cashing it in?  If money was the reason to buy it then surely at some point money is what you want in return for your investment.  Yet they keep on to it to the end of time and will never actually see a single penny return for their investment.  So in reality, it could be worth a billion quid, but it means nothing at all unless you turn that into actual cash. 

With regarding to having something "nice" or old school, that I understand totally.  There is an romanticsim in that, I understand that.  Hence I have 3 mechanical watches.  But my rant was about expensive mechanical watches that is driven by marketing and people's justifications in spending all that money in it.  Again, I am not against people spending their own money on their own things, it's their perogative.  I just find the reasons, most of them, illogical.

If however, they just say, I bought it because I like it. 

NOw, that is something I totally understand.

joneve

LOL. What a ridiculous thread this has turned into.

I own a Seamaster having got one for my 30th from my wife. 

I've wanted one for as long as I've worn a watch pretty much. 

Pretty sure that when I was 12 years old, I wouldn't have been concerned about thinking I was somehow elitist and looking the tits with my over-priced, over-marketed Omega. I liked it because it was a really nice looking automatic watch. I have two quartz watches, but hardly wear them. 

RaymondLin

joneve said:

LOL. What a ridiculous thread this has turned into.

I own a Seamaster having got one for my 30th from my wife. 

I've wanted one for as long as I've worn a watch pretty much. 

Pretty sure that when I was 12 years old, I wouldn't have been concerned about thinking I was somehow elitist and looking the tits with my over-priced, over-marketed Omega. I liked it because it was a really nice looking automatic watch. I have two quartz watches, but hardly wear them. 

Exactly, and that is refreshing to see, just say you like it! Not sure why people can't say that.  Why do they always come up with all the other justifications?

I have nothing against the brand, I have nothing against expensive watches, or anything expensive.  I'd buy one if want to, it's not about the money.  If I get one as a present I would happily wear it.  But if you ask me why?  my reasons is that I like it.  I am not going to say "so I can pass it to my children when I die" or "look at this piece of engineering behind this piece of solid stainless steel that you can't see with my non X-ray eyes" or "look at this valve that triggers when it goes under 300m that I can't physically test out without dying" or "it cost me nothing because I bought it at £2k and now worth £3k if I choose to sell it but i am not going to sell it". 

I buy one because I like it, I wear one because I like it, everything else is BS.

randomhandclaps

chillidoggy said:

Oi, Neil, you seen my new Rolex Yachtmaster 2, bro? No? I dun post a selfie of it for you, man. I love wearing it cos it piss off them uptight wankers at the Benefits when I'm picking up me Giro, see there faces, it's well funny! And you should see the looks I get from all the classy chav-birds. Mate, it's well cool! They can't help gawking at me bling when I'm having a pint or ten of Wife-Beater in the Mechanical Elephant. Fuck them battery watches, you is getting more gash with them Rolex, innit.

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/chillidoggy/imagejpg1_zps2d51e040.jpg

Did you buy that as a distraction when you had your elephant man elbow thing going on? 

chrispy108

RaymondLin said:

Another point about these engineering, like you see some divers with a valve which allows it to go like 500m underwater etc.  Pointless, absolutely pointless.  Except in dinner parties for something to talk about.  You will never ever be able to test it even if you are a die hard scuba diver.  Why?

The world record for scuba dive is like 318m.  You would be dead before testing and finding out if these valves would work or if the watch can in fact go that deep.  

What a bizarre series of rants you've gone on in this thread! Arguing against points no one is making.

I don't scuba dive, but for something which is literally life or death if it fails, which works in a hard environment (water, salt, temperature changes, pressure changes) I don't think anyone would argue that a bit of a safety margin is a bad thing!

RaymondLin

I agree, a bit of safety margin is good and VERY important thus they use dive computers, not Swiss watches.

joneve

*facepalm*

thermionic

I bet Raymond plays a Squier Affinity because the notes you play on a Custom Shop Strat aren't any more accurate.

holnrew

I think mechanical shit is cool, and with expensive watches you're buying the best possible cool shit.

And owning things like that can make you feel good. The average man in the street won't really know the difference, so I don't think it's for showing off purposes.

Neil

thermionic said:

I bet Raymond plays a Squier Affinity because the notes you play on a Custom Shop Strat aren't any more accurate.

I'm sure that is true. 

Neil

RaymondLin said:

As for the passing it to your children, lol, seriously, lol. I laugh because I see that as an excuse every time.  EVERYTIME.  Why a watch? Why does it need to be an expensive watch?  You can pass anything to your children, does it have to be a watch?  Your children should treausre everything that is dear to you when you pass it on.  Why watches?  Is it some kind of symbolism ? Does it even have to be an expensive watch?  Sentimentalty knows no moneytory value.  I would treasure a broken casio if that's what my dad gives when he goes. 

A watch is the perfect heirloom because it is a close personal effect of a loved one. Something they wore everyday. Can you understand that?

A working one you can wear is better than a broken one you can't surely?

My late Dad's Hamilton.

Laugh it up as you say you find stuff like this hilarious.

Neil

RaymondLin said:

In terms of the value going up.  Again, that is another common response.  Because if investment is a reason to buy watches, how come you are not swimming in the stuff, buying it in bulk and selling it on to make a living?  The fact is that watches are a terrible thing to "invest".  It is not a bad item to "park" your money.  So after adjusting to inflation, after the service costs, how much has it really cost you really? As opposed to compare pure numbers from one year to another, these Rolex needs a service around 5 years or so and they costs like £500.  You also forget to add the fact the reason of its value going up is purely to do with Rolex hiking up their new prices, so it automatically make the secondhand market price goes up, nothing to do with it being rare or exclusive.  In short, if when I buy a watch, I don't think to myself....in 7 years it would be worth this much.  Because you simply don't know.  If you knew, you would be a fool not to buy a thounsand of them surely.  It's just lucky that it went up that much.  There are plenty of Omega watches from the 60's and 70's you can pick up for like £500 too.  I even see lots of collecollectors who has many expensive watches and say how they bought them for X and now they are worth Y.  My question is why are you not cashing it in?  If money was the reason to buy it then surely at some point money is what you want in return for your investment.  Yet they keep on to it to the end of time and will never actually see a single penny return for their investment.  So in reality, it could be worth a billion quid, but it means nothing at all unless you turn that into actual cash. 

Utter rubbish of course. Investment is not the reason to buy watches, you said that.

Rolexes don't need a service every five years and even if they did you don't have to send them back to Rolex you know.

A decent watchmaker can service any watch including Rolex, mine charges me £40 + parts, hardly £500 is it?

Re the values, I can only go by my personal experience. I bought a lot of watches years ago when I was collecting. I have seen many I paid £50 increase in value to ten times that amount. 

In answer to your question, money is not the motivation and as to why I am not cashing in - I like them.

I have sold a few bits and pieces of over time to fund various things, I even traded a watch I bought at a flea market that after repair stood me in £140  for a Gibson Les Paul so please don't tell your grandmother how to suck eggs.

You obviously have a bee in your bonnet about expensive mechanical watches but why not just let other forum members enjoy them  'eh. 

joneve

@Neil

Have a wisdom sir! 

Snap

Raymond Lin, that's you're opinion. One I and any other watch enthusiast would disagree with. You can apply your arguments to just about most expensive things.

I've got several expensive watches. I couldnt' give a shite what anyone thinks about them. I have them cos I like them, everything about them. I don't need to show off to anyone, the sort of person who would be impressed by a flash wathc isn't the sort of person I want to know tbh. I'd like to think there's more to me than that.

It's just a nice thing to have really.

Holnrew  - good effort, you have been bitten by the automatic bug. No turning back now. Just think about those ocsillations man......the fact that this tiny precision instrument keeps on turning, thousands of times a minute in perefct sync, all through kinetic energy. Bleeding clever or what?