Whats all the noise about USA made guitars?

Musicwolf

As has been suggested above, the US built instruments have higher grade materials and components.

It's the same with cars and other manufactured goods.  The company starts off in the US, or Germany in the case of luxury cars, but the labour costs are high.  It expands its operations to low cost countries (Mexico, Korea, China, Eastern Europe etc) but it has to start from zero.  The workforce needs to be taught, quality control is managed long distance, and so they start with lower end products.  Over time these factories become as good, if not better than, the factories 'back home', but you still need to keep the old factories running as they are not cheap to close.  So you make your high end products there where the labour cost is less of an issue compared to the high material cost.

Offset

My reason for wanting US-made Fenders is simple:  when I first started playing in the mid-'70s, they were what I aspired to own.  I didn't want a Squier, another crap copy or (later) a Japanese or Mexican Fender -  I wanted one that came from the US of A, end of.  For the same reason I've never wanted an Epiphone - for me it would have been the equivalent of buying a Columbus or Avon copy although I know that is an out-of-date view.  Nevertheless, it persists and because I could afford it, I've followed my heart.

I also have a US Charvel, a US Hamer, a US Parker and a Gibson, so you could at least say I've been consistent.  I do however have a European-made T-style, a UK and a Korean guitar so I'm not averse to branching out.  But Fenders - gotta be US for me.

I hope you weren't looking for logic :-) 

roberty

elstoof said:

What’s all the noise about German made cars? What about Japanese made Boss Waza pedals? Savile Row suits? Scottish Whisky?

This is a good answer ^^ tradition counts for a lot

Also it would make no sense for a US made guitar to compete in the budget price range, which means they are implicitly (though not necessarily) made to a standard

Creed_Clicks

I've played a standard USA fender strat, and a Mexican one. Both good. For whatever reasons, the USA one felt really really nice. Is it it better woods etc? No idea.
But I would be interested to hear Japanese, or European made strat copies V USA Fenders for example.
I have a Chinese epiphone Casino, and an Indonesian Ibanez Jetstar, and both are fine.

guitars4you

tekbow said:

PFAllen2 said:

Historical precedent? There is am implied caché about inventing something first, or making it for a long time. It harks back to the notion of the good ole days, when things were built to last, done properly etc.

I agree with this, and there was a point when US mass produced guitars were the most developed in terms of build, fit, finish, ergonomics, and aesthetics.

But everyone else long since caught up.

I think the Japanese surpassed them at any given price point a long time ago.

But what the Japanese don't have, for most of their brands are the mythos that was built up, and that counts for a lot in many buyer's heads

This sums up a large part of it - Popular music, be it jazz, blues, big band, rock n roll etc is effectively an American product - So look at all/most of the artist on those early black 'n' white clips and they mainly play a USA made guitar - Look at Chuck Berry, T-Bone Walker, Eddie Cochran, Elvis and Scotty, etc etc and you see USA made Guitars - When Hank Marvin wanted a nice guitar he was influenced by James Burton (not knowing he actually played a Tele) - So when Hank led the UK corner for our own guitar hero's he played 'made in the USA' -  And it didn't take long for The Beatles and the Stones (at least the guitar players) to be playing USA models 

Add to that an most European made guitars of the day were no better than the Sears based catalogue guitars and the Jap guitars were barely worth a mention

So the Made in USA tag back then was about quality and indeed a form of hero worshipping 

Today we are all spoilt as to what is available to all of us - From entry level to custom built, from all 4 corners of the globe we are spoilt and probably never had it so good 

For those, like Fender, Gibson, PRS, who run multi locations of production, then USA still represents their flag ship models - But for other brands, like Ibanez, then a Far Eastern guitar can match anything that the Stars n Stripes can offer - And of course as far as hand built luthiers/custom shop etc we are all split as to what is available from whom, from anywhere 

Bigsby

Strat54 said:

Trolling thread....someone close it down now please. 

No, please don't. USA-based trolling threads are so much better than non-USA-based trolling threads. 

FelineGuitars

Honestly - in this MODERN  day and age

If you have the same CNC machine set up in factories in different countries. 

If you let each factory use the same raw materials and the same parts 

If you let each factory use the same files for the CNC, so no variance in body shapes etc

If each factory has staff who are familiar with guitars and how a good guitar should be

If each factory has the same quality control and proceedures in place

There is no reason I can see that the resulting product won't be the same

The differences will be:

The nationality of the person who presses the start button on the CNC 

The language spoken amongst the staff

Only in the players mind based on historical reasons and nostalgia*

*Possibly due to old fashioned ideas based on national pride, jingo-ism or racism

Offset

^^ That's all way too logical @FelineGuitars - I did suggest it was pointless to look for logic in this debate :-)

nacnudnai

Aren't we long past the days of US origin being considered "better" by default? I see very few, if any, people now saying that US guitars are "better". I see more people questioning why people think US means better.

What America does have is lots of history/heritage, and custom shops that can charge an arm and a leg based on their brand and reputation. Similar exists in other industries, and it isn't unique to the guitar industry or over-exploited relative to other industries.

GoFish

strtdv said:

Presumably the American CNC machines are working in Imperial rather than metric.
Everyone knows tone is in feet and inches

Tone is in the ... feet?

maltingsaudio

FelineGuitars said:

Honestly - 

Only in the players mind based on historical reasons and nostalgia*

*Possibly due to old fashioned ideas based on national pride, jingo-ism or racism

The truth, however I am struggling with the idea of spending north of £3000 on a secondhand guitar made in Korea, there I’ve said it. The guitar in question is an ESP Kirk Hammet Ouija.

tekbow

mal6tingsaudio said:

FelineGuitars said:

Honestly - 

Only in the players mind based on historical reasons and nostalgia*

*Possibly due to old fashioned ideas based on national pride, jingo-ism or racism

The truth, however I am struggling with the idea of spending north of £3000 on a secondhand guitar made in Korea, there I’ve said it. The guitar in question is an ESP Kirk Hammet Ouija.

You mean an LTD.

I'd not pay that for one either and I don't think the seller will be getting that.

HAL9000

I’m definitely of an age where I should regard American guitars as the real thing, and everything else as somehow not authentic. However, the two Mexican Fenders I own really don’t seem so different from my US Std. Okay, I’m know that the quality of parts and materials will be better on the US instrument, but for normal everyday use the MIMs look and feel right up there. 

ScreamingDave

My own experience has been that all the guitars I’ve really loved have been USA Fender or Gibsons.

I’ll never forget the absolute step change in quality, playability and feel when I traded my MIJ ‘62 reissue Strat for a US Standard Strat.  I’ve had various MIM and other Strats and Teles, but they’ve all been somehow not a patch on the US ones. 

The same goes for Gibson/Epiphone. I’ve had a couple of Gibson Les Pauls and a couple of Epiphones, and the same with SGs and the Gibsons blow the Epiphones away. 

However, that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re better because they’re made in USA.  I’m sure, as many other people have said, equally fine guitars can be produced elsewhere. 

One thing that does occur to me, though, is atmospheric conditions.  I only say this because I know Gibson manufacture their acoustic guitars in Montana, not Nashville, because of the atmospheric conditions there.  Maybe the high humidity in the far East and Pacific rim aren’t as conducive to producing high quality guitars?

just a thought 

crunchman

It's warm in California, but that doesn't stop Santa Cruz from manufacturing some of the best acoustic guitars I have played.  Humidity would probably be more of an issue.

I've not played many Epiphones to compare them with Gibsons, but I have to say that I don't think there is a massive difference between Mexican and US made Fenders.  I own one of each.

What I would say though, is that the Schecter PT Special I have now is definitely better than any Fender Tele I've owned or played at a similar price point, or even 30% more expensive.

Revolutions

Tradition, habit, ease & value of resale.

robgilmo

I am seeing a few posts regarding prices, what if we didnt know the prices, I wonder if there is a certain amount of association of higher prices and expected quality? It costs more it must be better?

The same as 'solid wood' for instance, or 'hand made' , all wood is a solid is it not? and hand made doesnt make something 'better' , 

So, if we lift the vale of association and get down to basics, are they really that much 'better' , taking into consideration 'different' isnt always 'better' , its just subjective.

munckee

For fenders particularly Mexican guitars covers a broad range as does US, I've played mexican standard strats and teles which haven't been modded and they've always felt like lower quality instruments than US standards, the high end mexicans with better hardware have been at least a match in my experience.

Primarily for fenders they are two bits of wood, if you put the equivalent quality hardware on them they become the same quality as US higher end mexicans.

I've generally found MIJ/CIJ to be US quality although I know some of the wiring isn't as good but I can't hear that.

euan

I find it slightly ironic that due to its location and economic realities you get a Mexican made Fender in Mexico and Mexican made Fender in the USA. To an extend the US production of Fender has always been that way. 

The real price difference is in the number and extent of QC steps and rectifications as well as material choice. There’s a possibility because of experience that Fender Mexico employees are better than their US equivalents at make guitars. They just don’t get to show it. 

I’d love to see a parallel Fender Mexico Custom Shop and see what they create. 

HAL9000

As for ‘made in the USA’ is better, let me offer you some stringy American cheese washed down with some of their gassy beer.