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What am I missing here then?
A#° - A#, C#, E, G
E° - E, G, A# (Bb), C# (Db)
…aren’t these two names for the same thing?
A Diminished 7th is comprised of three minor 3rds above the root - 1 b3 b5 bb7
Taking A# as the root:
A#º - A#(1), C#(b3), E(b5)
A#º7 - A#(1), C#(b3), E(b5), G(bb7)
As they are symmetrical, any one of the notes can act as the name of the chord as they are "all the same" so to speak.
A#º7 is the same as Gº7 for example (and Eº7 and C#º7)
If I'm understanding you correctly, you're really thinking in terms of a dim7th rather than a diminished triad. But in either case it would imply an A7b9 sound (more so A#º7 as it has the b7(G) of A7 which is not present in the A#º triad).
For me in depends on the context, where the chord is placed in the progression etc. I wouldn't call it Eº unless E was in the bass of the chord... even then I'd still really think of it as A7b9 so maybe A7b9/E. If A# (or Bb) is in the bass I'd be more inclined to use it's diminished namesake.
…..
F# chord
People will disagree with me (and their answers are just as right as mine) because a) it doesn’t even contain F#!! and b) because what the hell has F# got to do with anything?
But it’s basically functioning as a secondary dominant II chord, which would go to the B, and then the E. Ok it misses out the B (because the B has already happened), but you can see what it’s doing. It’s like a ii-V-I. But it’s a secondary dominant so it’s a II7 (a dominant chord) - V (absent!) - I.
But wtf are we calling it F# for, lol?
A# (the 3rd)
C# (the 5th)
E (the flat 7)
and then it has a G, which is the b9. So it’s F#7b9 (no F#)
Anyway that’s what it’s doing, functionally speaking.
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
Absolutely - it's a II7 - I, not a II7 - V7 - I.
The II is in 1st inv obvs, didn't mention that before.
But yes, handle everything I say with care!
Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
Personally, I generally go with the simplest route and would see A#dim7 as a substitution of A7 dominant chord and also a “passing chord” into E7
Interesting. I’m out right now but will definitely experiment with an F# later. The sound in my head though definitely needs the dissonance of a dim7 or perhaps a C7 (which still has the E, G, and Bb (A#) from the dim7. I guess the dim7 kind of acts a bit like a C7 and an F# and an A7 so can act as a substitution for any of them.
Taking those four chords, and keeping in mind the possibilities of naming diminished chords...
Dm9 - Eº7 - Cm6 - Dº
Dm9 - Gº7 - Cm6 - Fº
Dm9 - Bbº7 - Cm6 - Bº
None of those diminished triads or 7ths are wrong as such (as they're all inversions of each other so fair game) but they're not completely descriptive of what is actually supposed to happen musically. I'd have a headache if I saw any of those on a gig for this song But I know I can use them as voicings in my comping if the bass player is playing C# and B respectively, or if said bass player decides to invert any of them then that's on them
But how that relates to charts one writes can be many different things. Even the best musicians can chart things out that only really mean something to them. I'd have look at the kind of charts you're referring to, but often there can be a method to the (perceived) madness.