Long cable runs to the mixing desk

Flanging_Fred

I just got a new pedal that needs to be connected directly to the mixing desk.  If the desk is a long way from the pedal board and there’s no stage box, what is the preferred way to connect them? I have a feeling that there is a better answer than “a really long guitar cable”. A short cable to a D.I. box then a balanced cable to the desk?

Any advise would be welcome

Musicwolf

Flanging_Fred said:

 A short cable to a D.I. box then a balanced cable to the desk?

This is how I would do it

Whistler

Flanging_Fred said:

A short cable to a D.I. box then a balanced cable to the desk?

This, because a guitar's sound will deteriorate (lose top end) through a long cable, which is where we get the general 6m max length.

An XLR cable will be good for up to 100m, so go with the DI box as you and Musicwolf said.

maltingsaudio

I would use a di and xlr, or for a more expensive way of doing it and assuming you just set and forget and use it all the time, transmitter from your guitar with receiver by the desk and output from receiver through the pedal into the desk

ICBM

Is the pedal properly buffered? If so then it’s not really an issue even with an unbalanced cable. A DI box is probably better, but not essential.

If the pedal is not properly buffered, either get one that is or follow it with one that is.

AntonHunter

ICBM said:

Is the pedal properly buffered? If so then it’s not really an issue even with an unbalanced cable. A DI box is probably better, but not essential.

If the pedal is not properly buffered, either get one that is or follow it with one that is.

Forgive the ignorance here, but does buffering make a difference when the pedal is on? I've only considered this in the context of bypassing (true vs buffered), but I guess it still applies when a pedal in engaged, just never thought about it before.

springhead

Yes it does. And an unbuffered or true bypass pedal will usually do the same, apart from a few examples, eg some fuzz pedals. The electronics in the pedal will present a high impedance to the guitar and have a low enough output impedance to drive a long length of cable. 

Danny1969

If the desk is a long way away, then use a DI box as that will not only lower the impedance but also provide a differential output across the XRL output. The desk input channel then amplifies the difference between this differential output and all noise pickup up along the way will be cancelled out as it common across both of the differential signals. You can go 100m or so in this fashion and still have a very little noise on the wanted signal. 

Flanging_Fred

Thanks for the advice. 

The pedal in question is a Boss AC3 acoustic simulator, for those few parts in our set that would benefit from a more acoustic like sound. So as far as I’m aware, it’s a buffed pedal. I think I may have a D.I. Box squirrelled away somewhere so following what’s been said, I’ll definitely see if I can find it and give it a go. 

shufflebeat

Danny1969 said:

If the desk is a long way away, then use a DI box as that will not only lower the impedance but also provide a differential output across the XRL output. The desk input channel then amplifies the difference between this differential output and all noise pickup up along the way will be cancelled out as it common across both of the differential signals. You can go 100m or so in this fashion and still have a very little noise on the wanted signal. 

ICBM said:

Is the pedal properly buffered? If so then it’s not really an issue even with an unbalanced cable. A DI box is probably better, but not essential.

If the pedal is not properly buffered, either get one that is or follow it with one that is.

shufflebeat

^^^ Those two ^^^

ICBM

springhead said:

And an unbuffered or true bypass pedal will usually do the same, apart from a few examples, eg some fuzz pedals. The electronics in the pedal will present a high impedance to the guitar and have a low enough output impedance to drive a long length of cable. 

There are quite a lot of true bypass pedals which are still effectively unbuffered even when on, usually because the last component in the circuit is a fairly high-resistance level/volume pot. When the pot isn't full up, there's then significant series resistance to the output, which results in noise and tone suck from long cabling.

Flanging_Fred said:

The pedal in question is a Boss AC3 acoustic simulator, for those few parts in our set that would benefit from a more acoustic like sound. So as far as I’m aware, it’s a buffed pedal. I think I may have a D.I. Box squirrelled away somewhere so following what’s been said, I’ll definitely see if I can find it and give it a go. 

That should be fine going straight to the desk. All (as far as I know) Boss compact pedals of that style have buffered outputs, usually with an impedance of 1k ohm - very low.

However, there's another good reason you may need a DI box if you want to use it in your normal electric rig - both pedal outputs are grounded, which means you will get a ground loop between your amp and the PA, which may make one or both of them hum. A DI box will fix that, but since the Boss is buffered, you can use a (cheaper and completely reliable) passive one if you prefer. You need an active DI box with unbuffered pedals, or they tend to lose tone and volume.