Breedlove Truss Rod help

lincolnblue

I have a Breedlove Atlas AC25/SR Plus and the low E is buzzing so I want to tweak the truss rod (loosen it I think it the one to do?) slightly.
The truss rod hole looks to be round rather than the usual allen key shape. Any idea what truss rod adjuster to use?

Thanks in advance

BillDL

As far as I know that model has a 2-way truss rod that's accessible via a hole drilled through the brace closet to the soundhole, and there will then be a space between that and the end of the truss rod at the neck block.  Something like this:

I think some of the older Breedlove acoustics had truss rod adjustments at the headstock, but as far as I know all recent ones have it via the soundhole.  If your guitar has the adjuster at the headstock ignore the details below and try to take a photo of what you are seeing.

2-way rods usually have a round outer "collar" that's the first thing you see (if you can see in as far as that), but when you look at them outside a guitar the actual socket for the Allen key can be set fairly deeply inside that collar and can sometimes be hard to locate with the tip of the Allen key.

You will probably need an Allen key with a pretty long "short" side to reach it fully, or else use the long side of a long Allen key if you still have enough leverage on the shorter end of it at the soundhole.  The truss rod Allen keys with a short wooden handle sold by Breedlove actually have a 5" long shaft to reach the truss rod adjuster.  Unless it's a guitar that was made for the American market it should have a 4mm truss rod socket.  I would confirm this with Breedlove though.  You should be able to get one with a plastic handle like this one in a 4mm version (Martin uses 5mm to my knowledge).

or just a plain one with no handle.  Personally I don't like using ball-end Allen keys because it's a lot easier to round out the inside of a hex socket with that ball if the end doesn't go in deeply enough, but it does help with locating the entrance of the hex socket while feeling around blind.

BillDL

I found a video by Breedlove on adjusting the truss rod:

I should have asked first where on the neck the low E string is buzzing.  That can be quite important to know in diagnosing whether it's an issue that can be resolved with a tiny truss rod adjustment or if it is symptomatic of something else.  You may well already have a good idea of what's discussed in this video with a model to demonstrate, but I thought I would post it for the benefit of anybody trying to assess an issue on an acoustic guitar.

I have seen a Breedlove guitar with a factory fitted "Bridge Doctor" device (they call it a "Bridge Truss System") that allows you to exert pressure in such a way as to counteract a soundboard that is beginning to form a belly behind the bridge and affect the playability.  I'm just curious as to whether your guitar came with this fitted.

lincolnblue

BillDL said:

I found a video by Breedlove on adjusting the truss rod:

I should have asked first where on the neck the low E string is buzzing.  That can be quite important to know in diagnosing whether it's an issue that can be resolved with a tiny truss rod adjustment or if it is symptomatic of something else.  You may well already have a good idea of what's discussed in this video with a model to demonstrate, but I thought I would post it for the benefit of anybody trying to assess an issue on an acoustic guitar.

I have seen a Breedlove guitar with a factory fitted "Bridge Doctor" device (they call it a "Bridge Truss System") that allows you to exert pressure in such a way as to counteract a soundboard that is beginning to form a belly behind the bridge and affect the playability.  I'm just curious as to whether your guitar came with this fitted.

Thanks for that. I've contacted Breedlove just to be sure but the truss rod is accessible at the sound hole and i suspect i need a long armed wrench. 
My guitar does have the Bridge Truss system. I need to watch the video as I've never fully understood it but Luther Chris George who has worked on the guitar in the past said he always loved the design 

lincolnblue

@BillDL I think it's buzzing at the first fret or two

BillDL

... and only the low E?  If it was just relief-related I would have expected one or more of the other strings to be rattling / buzzing in the same area, however if it is only the relief needing to be increased it will probably only involve the tiniest of tweaks of the truss rod to correct it (like an eighth of a rotation or even less).  One thing I would suggest, however, is using a fret rocker to see if the 2nd and 3rd frets are higher at the bass side, if only just to eliminate that possibility.

The "Bridge Truss System" is very useful for being able to counteract and rectify the almost inevitable bellying of the soundboard behind the bridge that happens as the instrument gets older and has lived with constrant string tension.  It allows the grub screw to be tightened and that in turn pushes the front of the bridge up to reduce the effect of the top bellying up behind the bridge and sometimes dipping down in front, which makes the bridge slope forward.  It's unlikely that adjusting it would improve the particular symptom you currently have, but it would be worth ensuring that the grub screw is tightened just enough so that the dowel is being held in place rather than being able to slide back and forward or able to spin freely around.

lincolnblue

I bought a 4mm hex key as Breedlove sugested but it doesn't work. The key goes in a couple of mm then hits something so doesn't engage to be able to turn the truss rod. 

BillDL

That's really strange.  Did you buy the guitar new or 2nd-hand?  If you bought it 2nd-hand the only thing I can think of is if somebody used a cheap soft metal ball-end Allen wrench and sheared off the ball end that's now stuck in the socket, or perhaps the truss rod has never been adjusted and there's a thick run of glue down in the socket.  If the socket had been rounded out by using something like an Imperial sized Allen key slightly smaller than the right size you would usually still be able to get the correct sized Allen key into it, but it would keep slipping.  Maybe not though - Hex peg into a round hole?

Ball End vs Standard

You've definitely slackened off the two inside strings so that you can rotate the wrench from about 10 O'Clock to 2 O'Clock?  That would give you a wide enough range of rotation for the wrench to engage at least once through its travel.

lincolnblue

I bought the guitar new 20 years ago. I took it to Chris George in lincolnshire shot 5or6 years ago for some work but I have no doubt he used correct tools.  Sadly he's retired now. 
I'll try and see if my phone camera can get a photo clear enough of it but suspect I'll need to take it to a tech to look at it

BillDL

Yeah, I was wondering whether the camera on a smartphone might be able to "see" in there.  Maybe with flash it might.