What hill would you die on? Amp edition

ICBM

JayGee said:

I think the word we’re looking for here is “Kerrang!”, and the fact they named both a magazine and subsequently a radio (and for a while TV) channel after it kind of reinforces your point… :-)

Exactly .

Blueingreen

Any minor tonal advantage, real or imagined, that a valve amp might have over my Quilters wouldn't justify lugging the extra weight.

If you compare two players, one using an inexpensive amp, and one using a very expensive one, the person getting the best tone will almost always be the better or more experienced player, no matter who is playing which amp.

earwighoney

Reverend said:

TTBZ said:

A 2204/2203 circuit is the amp equivalent of a tele, it sounds good doing anything. Provided you have a suitable boost and guitar/pickups it'll go as heavy as you like, and they clean up great too. An old JMP 2104 combo is still the best sounding amp I've played, instant ACDC straight out the box but with a boost it worked perfectly for my stoner metal band. 

it will do death metal, thrash meal, doom metal, sludge, AC/DC and more. 

and by do, I mean its still the best for all of them

Also great for some less heavy sounds as well, eg early wave math rock like Don Caballero.  They'd set their amps as clean as they could be.

IMO, if a player can't get a good sound with a JCM800 I'd say it was down the player, but I'd characterise to a number of amps too.

Blueingreen said:

If you compare two players, one using an inexpensive amp, and one using a very expensive one, the person getting the best tone will almost always be the better or more experienced player, no matter who is playing which amp.

I sometimes the ability of the player is underestimated in the grand scheme of things.  Some of the best live tones I have ever heard have almost entirely been with a Fender HRD.  That amp sounds ok through my playing but when a few guitarists who I rate really highly, played through that amp it sounded extraordinary.

chris78

jmf1928 said:

Amps haven't improved in forty years. 

You’ve not played a bartel, Carr or two rock. 

shaunm

Amps sound totally different when used at volume and in a live mix or recording. 

So many people sell or move on amps without hearing them in a mix which to my mind is making a decision without hearing them in the context of what they were made for. @Nerine used the example of a JCM800 cutting through a mix better than any of the amps that have been based on it. I will say that I have had some brands that are lauded and thought they sounded amazing at home but didn’t do anything for me in a band mix. All the things that made it good at home
worked against it. 

Alex2678

^I suppose it might be what they’re made for but if that’s not what you’re using them for you should still get rid of they aren’t doing what you want. If a jcm800 sounds shit at home and you play at home for example 

shaunm

@Alex2678 i agree totally. I had a two rock studio 35 that sounded great at home but garbage with a band. It just didn’t work well in a mix for me. A Vox AC30 I’ve had totally the opposite experience. I didn’t think much to it at home but live I thought it was great. At those power ratings I suspect neither were made with the intention to be used only at home. 

I have seen many a review of amps in forums where people have slated an amp but the reality is it probably wasn’t tested out in the right setting.

StuartMac290

shaunm said:

@Alex2678 i agree totally. I had a two rock studio 35 that sounded great at home but garbage with a band. It just didn’t work well in a mix for me. A Vox AC30 I’ve had totally the opposite experience. I didn’t think much to it at home but live I thought it was great. At those power ratings I suspect neither were made with the intention to be used only at home. 

I have seen many a review of amps in forums where people have slated an amp but the reality is it probably wasn’t tested out in the right setting.

Totally agree. You quite often see people on The Gear Page saying they were nonplussed by, for example, the Matchless DC30, which in all honesty if you've had the master engaged you haven't really heard at all.

I know it does Phil Jameson's head in, as the amps are designed to be played loud. The guy at Divided By 13 has had numerous rants about it as well, folk buying stage amps to use at home.

One of the great pleasures of my life is that I can play amps at my studio at whatever volume I like. Matchless amps absolutely come alive in that setting at serious volume. I play through an HC30 and a Clubman together a lot in there, and even clean sounds are just massive.

sweepy

Don't be a cheaparse when it comes to Amps and speakers, spend the money and enjoy

stylesforfree

Solid state and tube rectifier amps sound the same and 6L6/6V6/EL84 power amp tubes show very little difference between each other to the point of being indistinguishable.

I spent a day recording my Fender Supersonic 22 (diode rectifier) alongside a deluxe reverb (5R4 valve) with a friend. On the clean channel the supersonic sounded identical to the deluxe reverb even when cranked. 

DrJazzTap

Most people object to the fact that a peavey bandit or a studio pro will do most things you need it to do. And that you'd don't need to buy the hot new thing. 

I do believe that less is more, an amp with too many switches, pots and buttons is just an expensive headache waiting to happen.

Secret_Sam

ICBM said:

KevS said:

If there was just a Transistor Amp that was as Temperamental and Heavy as a Valve amp..I might consider lowering my standards to buy it.. 

HH VS Musician 100W 2x12” combo.

I had the head version of that HH when I was about 19.  Its distortion sound was horrible, although clean was good. I played it through a Matamp 4x12 that I bought ostensibly on sale for not much money:  I suspect Matt Mathias, who was a really nice bloke, just took pity on me. 

snowblind

cm01 said:

Alex2678 said:

The bassbreaker 18/30 is a great old school non-mv amp brought down by the rest of the range. Fendery pre amp into a Voxy power section, 2x12 cab - buried in a confused product line 

I’ve been intrigued by these for a while, going to have to check them out.

If you do feel the need, get the reverb option. but on balance, don't.

snowblind

The only amp anyone ever needs is a HiWatt DR103 with matching 4x12 and someone to carry it.

Alex2678

snowblind said:

cm01 said:

Alex2678 said:

The bassbreaker 18/30 is a great old school non-mv amp brought down by the rest of the range. Fendery pre amp into a Voxy power section, 2x12 cab - buried in a confused product line 

I’ve been intrigued by these for a while, going to have to check them out.

If you do feel the need, get the reverb option. but on balance, don't.

There isn’t a version of the 18/30 with reverb unless I’m misunderstanding your post 

snowblind

My bad. There is a Bassbreaker 30R which is pretty much the same thing as the 18/30 'cept with reverb. I had an 18/30 for a short while but never really got on with it. The internal construction isn't great and I found the volume was either off or ears bleeding. Seemed to be zero, tiny thin reedy for about 2mm on the dial then straight into pain threshold territory. There's a sense that it really wants to be a Marshall but doesn't quite make it. Not convinced about the Celestion A series speakers either. The Laney VC30 I replaced it with knocks spots off it.

I think the kicker was I'd been taking the BC30 to some practice sessions but it's quite a weighty beast at over 30Kg so one week I took the Fender (a lightweight at under 25Kg). One of the other guitarists looks at it and says, "Where did your tone go?".

All that said I suspect with some different speakers and a few mods (changing V1 for a 12AY7 helps a little) there might be an ok amp in there somewhere. Be aware they can also suffer from the same fried motherboard problems as some of the other Fenders.  They can be picked up relatively cheap though so if you budget for a bit of work on top there is a potential result in there somewhere. 

Kurtis

I'd say there's not really such a thing as a good/bad tone just a suitable tone for the situation.


In a band mix everyone has to give each other the right space, so it's never completely one instrument/players fault if it doesn't sound good.

Some people forget amps usually have some sort of eq as well as volume and dirt. Use it! 

Alex2678

I do agree that the 18/30 sounds thin, loved it anyway, but I do like a wiry sound sometimes 

Haych

Just because it has valves doesn't mean it will sound good.

Just because it has transistors doesn't mean it will sound bad.

The most important part of an amp is the speaker.

Any amp I own, have owned, or will own sounds universally better when played by somebody else.

Litterick

Speaker upgrades are just vanity projects.