Playing Simple Bossa Nova Pieces

guitarjack66

Any tips,both theoretical and technical for playing some simple Bossa tunes on my acoustics? Double stops and one and two string patterns particularly welcomed.

Brad

Have you got any specifics in mind you want to work on? I dare say your request seems a little on the vague side...

Chords/Bossa Nova Rhythm?

Improv?

Repertoire?

joeW

If you are Truefire, Fareed Haque has an excellent course that covers the basics.  3-2-1 Bossa Nove 

danishbacon

https://youtu.be/-e784DvyRMs?si=RJFG0xRy6V9qAXsJ

this is a good starting point with lots to unpick and practice. 

Key with bossa is the feel of the patterns, there’s a subtle swing that if you stiffen up can really affect the overall interpretation of pieces that are always ‘catching up’ rhythmically. 

guitarjack66

Brad said:

Have you got any specifics in mind you want to work on? I dare say your request seems a little on the vague side...

Chords/Bossa Nova Rhythm?

Improv?

Repertoire?

Chords and riffs to begin with progressing to a few basic whole tunes. 
I'm trying to figure out the common chords/double stops that fit with the sound in my head. I get the rhythm part idea but I would rather just have a few common chords and double stops to set me on my way.

guitarjack66

danishbacon said:

https://youtu.be/-e784DvyRMs?si=RJFG0xRy6V9qAXsJ

this is a good starting point with lots to unpick and practice. 

Key with bossa is the feel of the patterns, there’s a subtle swing that if you stiffen up can really affect the overall interpretation of pieces that are always ‘catching up’ rhythmically. 

Thanks. Will take a look at this later.

guitars4you

@danishbacon has said a lot of key points 

Girl from Ipanema is an absolute pain for me to capture - yes I can play the melody and the chords - But capturing the feel, sensuality and the easy swing is not easy - The song describes a young tanned and gorgeous girl walking down the broadwalk/beach , with a sensual sway of the hips etc - My version describes Norra Batty, in toweling leggings, at Blackpool on a wet day, stomping along the prom 

Keep it simple as in less is more - When it is played right it is wonderful - Played wrong it sounds like a bunch of out of tunes drunkards singing I will survive karaoke 

2 versions here of the same song - 2nd is live and faster but the easy laid back vibe is still there - Its sensuality is in its simplicity  

danishbacon

Here's another decent overview on the point of feel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xYFRIqiV88

guitarjack66

I saw Guthrie Trapp do a piece on his Telecaster a few weeks back and these lads make it look so easy.

Brad

guitarjack66 said:

Brad said:

Have you got any specifics in mind you want to work on? I dare say your request seems a little on the vague side...

Chords/Bossa Nova Rhythm?

Improv?

Repertoire?

Chords and riffs to begin with progressing to a few basic whole tunes. 
I'm trying to figure out the common chords/double stops that fit with the sound in my head. I get the rhythm part idea but I would rather just have a few common chords and double stops to set me on my way.

Ok, well with learning any new style it’s important to listen and begin to learn some repertoire as that will help contextualise the technical considerations. 

Listen to plenty of Antonio Carlos Jobim and Joao Gilberto. 

There’s a lot to take on with this style so Blue Bossa by Kenny Dorham is a great starting point for learning Bossa as it’s simple, both melodically and harmonically. How Insensitive and Triste are good tunes to take things further without being quite so difficult. 

I agree with @danishbacon that the feel and learning the patterns is essential. Personally I think it should be played straight (not slightly swung), but certainly not stiff, it definitely has to flow, almost bounce. 

Regarding technique, separate the left and right hands to start with. 

You mention you’re fine for the rhythmic aspect but I think it’s always good to clarify. Look at the Bossa Nova Clave rhythm as this will underpin everything afterwards. Using the right hand fingers to play on the following beats:

1  +  2  +  3  +  4  +  |  1  +  2  +  3  +  4  +

Then it’s a case of separating the thumb(T) and fingers(F) for a common comping rhythm:

F      F          F      F         F      F          F

T              T                 T              T

1  +  2  +  3  +  4  +  |  1  +  2  +  3  +  4  +

The next step would be to get alternating bass notes with the thumb, often roots and 5ths. It’s all about getting the syncopation going whether it’s accompanying or melodic playing. 

Regarding the left hand, the bare minimum required is having all diatonic 7th chords down and ideally 9ths. That will get most of the harmony you’d need for the vast majority of repertoire. Having some altered dominants and Dim7 shapes will be very worthwhile down the line too 

 Perhaps I’m not understanding you correctly, so please correct me if I’m wrong but there’s not much in the way of double stops in an obvious sense. If anything, it’s probably the punctuation of the harmony that you’re hearing and again, that comes from the rhythmic elements of the picking hand and having the required fretboard knowledge in the left hand. 

Brad

danishbacon said:

Here's another decent overview on the point of feel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xYFRIqiV88

That’s way better than my ramblings

danishbacon

https://youtu.be/cpy6kowW-7Q?si=6zIeYH8Ke92T_4oy

I know I’m playing slightly different thumb patterns on both but I did this quick and dirty exercise to try and figure out where the feel difference is. Rather than a swing of the ‘hits’ it’s a swing of the sustains if that makes sense. Don’t forget to dance and sway to the music, however slightly, it makes a difference. 

Brad

danishbacon said:

https://youtu.be/cpy6kowW-7Q?si=6zIeYH8Ke92T_4oy

I know I’m playing slightly different thumb patterns on both but I did this quick and dirty exercise to try and figure out where the feel difference is. Rather than a swing of the ‘hits’ it’s a swing of the sustains if that makes sense. Don’t forget to dance and sway to the music, however slightly, it makes a difference. 

100% on this. For me, it’s the syncopated crossover between the thumb and fingers which is where the magic is. Definitely got to dance and sway with it. If a little contrived, I found it helped moving the body first to get that momentum with the playing. Gradually the playing gets the body moving.