£56 delivery charge for 2 cans of Nitro….WTF?

paulnb57

Just ordered 2 cans of Nitro from Manchester Guitar Tech, clicked pay now and then realised it was £56 delivery to the Isle of Wight, requested order cancellation, it will be the same packaging, on the same ferry, in similar van to all the rest of the parcels coming here, bloody ridiculous!
Hope they read the cancellation email before mailing…

@SteveRobinson

hollywoodrox

That’s insane . Have you tried north west guitars  they may be better 
  No excuse for charging that much . It’s like those eBay listings in the USA if you’re buying something small like a sticker and it says  a ridiculous amount like £19 postage .

Im sure the Isle of Wight is not sufficiently removed to warrant such a cost . 

Do you still get amazon prime deliveries pretty sharpish ?

Kittyfrisk

Calling @SteveRobinson  ;

paulnb57

hollywoodrox said:

That’s insane . Have you tried north west guitars  they may be better 
  No excuse for charging that much . It’s like those eBay listings in the USA if you’re buying something small like a sticker and it says  a ridiculous amount like £19 postage .

Im sure the Isle of Wight is not sufficiently removed to warrant such a cost . 

Do you still get amazon prime deliveries pretty sharpish ?

Its because its classed as hazardous goods, same packing same type of vans, just probably UPS, Northwest wont mail it at all….
Amazon Prime is good for deliveries here often next day, Ill have a look on there

hollywoodrox

paulnb57 said:

hollywoodrox said:

That’s insane . Have you tried north west guitars  they may be better 
  No excuse for charging that much . It’s like those eBay listings in the USA if you’re buying something small like a sticker and it says  a ridiculous amount like £19 postage .

Im sure the Isle of Wight is not sufficiently removed to warrant such a cost . 

Do you still get amazon prime deliveries pretty sharpish ?

Its because its classed as hazardous goods, same packing same type of vans, just probably UPS, Northwest wont mail it at all….
Amazon Prime is good for deliveries here often next day, Ill have a look on there

Damn that’s ridiculous . I had some nitro mailed to me at Torquay from north west once 
I’m sure if it’s in a half decent box it should be relatively safe . I’m sure lots of pressurised containers must be sent by Mail , eh hair lacquer ,fresheners etc it’s something that need to be sorted  for the current times  as we are an online world . 

IOW must be a prime candidate for drone deliveries ,that would be quite interesting 

paulnb57

hollywoodrox said:

IOW must be a prime candidate for drone deliveries ,that would be quite interesting 

Start of Drone delivery trials have just been suspended by a week, problems with the landing site on our side, so not far off

hollywoodrox

paulnb57 said:

hollywoodrox said:

IOW must be a prime candidate for drone deliveries ,that would be quite interesting 

Start of Drone delivery trials have just been suspended by a week, problems with the landing site on our side, so not far off

Quite exciting  that . Funny that. Problems with the landing site  you’d think any flat space or surface would be sufficient 

hollywoodrox

I wonder if it’s because Nitro is quite a toxic substance ,more than the pressurised container thing . If not  it would be good if there was some sort of cheap kit that could enable you to fill your own containers under pressure . Like some sort of soda stream device lol 

prowla

paulnb57 said:

hollywoodrox said:

That’s insane . Have you tried north west guitars  they may be better 
  No excuse for charging that much . It’s like those eBay listings in the USA if you’re buying something small like a sticker and it says  a ridiculous amount like £19 postage .

Im sure the Isle of Wight is not sufficiently removed to warrant such a cost . 

Do you still get amazon prime deliveries pretty sharpish ?

Its because its classed as hazardous goods, same packing same type of vans, just probably UPS, Northwest wont mail it at all….
Amazon Prime is good for deliveries here often next day, Ill have a look on there

Should’ve explained it’s not nitroglycerin!

darthed1981

Hazardous goods are a pain in the arse to ship legally to many destinations - £56 seems a bit excessive though.

2x large cans of Nitro on a ship, let alone a plane, in the same parcel, might well get you above the "excepted quantity" amount for the either class 2.1 or class 2.2 dangerous goods in the package... so it would actually require a dangerous goods note and if above the "limited quantity" amount - special packaging.

I work for a 3PL...

ICBM

prowla said:

Should’ve explained it’s not nitroglycerin!

No, but it's still highly flammable and the vapour is probably explosive under the right (wrong) conditions.

In a slightly different form, nitrocellulose is called guncotton and was used as a shell propellant, so it could definitely be classed as an explosive.

Funkfingers

Flammable liquid, stored under pressure, together with a gaseous propellant, in an easily crushable/splittable container. 

Would you store that under a baby's cot? I thought not.

BillDL

Any company conveying hazardous goods (ADR - from French "Accord Dangerous Routier" - English "Carriage of Dangerous Goods by Road") has to have a certificate, has to pay additional insurance, and has to train the drivers.  This is true for all pressurised containers of highly flammable goods like camping gas, and even non pressurised flammables like bulk containers of perfume. The packages of aerosol nitrocellulose lacquer bear a hazardous goods sticker.  Steve Robinson will have to pay higher than normal carriage costs to have the aerosols delivered to him, so he has to recoup some of the costs on the price of the item and carriage.  I would bet that he is actually absorbing some of the carriage costs himself.

As far as I know his choice of courier is APC Overnight (next day because it's not something that you want sitting around in a warehouse) and they use a network of couriers with the ADR certificate so that the delivery hub is in the recipient's locality.  The expensive portion of the route will be the ferry, because most other mainland deliveries are £15.  APC Overnight would hand off the goods to subcontractor Acclaim Parcels Express (Southampton) Ltd, Unit C, Eagle Close, Chandlers Ford, Southampton, SO53 4NF for delivery to the Isle of Wight, so they are probably taking £41 to deliver to an island via ferry.

Do you know anybody in Southampton?  Use their address as the delivery one and then go over as a pedestrian on the ferry to pick up the package.  Would that be cheaper?

paulnb57

BillDL said:

Any company conveying hazardous goods (ADR - from French "Accord Dangerous Routier" - English "Carriage of Dangerous Goods by Road") has to have a certificate, has to pay additional insurance, and has to train the drivers.  This is true for all pressurised containers of highly flammable goods like camping gas, and even non pressurised flammables like bulk containers of perfume. The packages of aerosol nitrocellulose lacquer bear a hazardous goods sticker.  Steve Robinson will have to pay higher than normal carriage costs to have the aerosols delivered to him, so he has to recoup some of the costs on the price of the item and carriage.  I would bet that he is actually absorbing some of the carriage costs himself.

As far as I know his choice of courier is APC Overnight (next day because it's not something that you want sitting around in a warehouse) and they use a network of couriers with the ADR certificate so that the delivery hub is in the recipient's locality.  The expensive portion of the route will be the ferry, because most other mainland deliveries are £15.  APC Overnight would hand off the goods to subcontractor Acclaim Parcels Express (Southampton) Ltd, Unit C, Eagle Close, Chandlers Ford, Southampton, SO53 4NF for delivery to the Isle of Wight, so they are probably taking £41 to deliver to an island via ferry.

Do you know anybody in Southampton?  Use their address as the delivery one and then go over as a pedestrian on the ferry to pick up the package.  Would that be cheaper?

It will be the same packing as for anywhere else in the UK in the same type of van, IOW is classed as mainland UK for mail so, a guitar delivery to here would cost the same as anywhere else in the UK (except UPS who charge significantly more, no idea why).
I do know someone in Portsmouth, but I would have to pay to park, (£8ish) then a ferry fare,(£20+) not really viable for 2 cans of paint…..

paulnb57

So, order has been cancelled and refunded, met my near neighbour on the park last night dog walking, he works for one of the ferry operators, he said I can send the parcel to their mainland address and he will bring it over

SteveRobinson

BillDL said:

As far as I know his choice of courier is APC Overnight (next day because it's not something that you want sitting around in a warehouse) and they use a network of couriers with the ADR certificate so that the delivery hub is in the recipient's locality.  The expensive portion of the route will be the ferry, because most other mainland deliveries are £15.  APC Overnight would hand off the goods to subcontractor Acclaim Parcels Express (Southampton) Ltd, Unit C, Eagle Close, Chandlers Ford, Southampton, SO53 4NF for delivery to the Isle of Wight, so they are probably taking £41 to deliver to an island via ferry.

Exactly this.

Only APC will carry hazardous materials and they have to go via surface transport.

BillDL

I had no idea that the Isle of Wight mail was treated as "mainland", but I suppose there's enough of it going over every day to make it worthwhile and keep the costs as though they are mainland.  The Royal Mail van on the Island that goes over to Southampton, or the one that goes over to Cowes, probably doesn't pay for the ferry or has heavily subsidised fare, whereas couriers vans will pay the full whack.

It's interesting, because in Scotland we have the situation that anything deemed Highlands and Islands has higher carriage costs by courier companies.  You have to watch like a hawk, because some companies in England selling things seem to think that any postcode North of Glasgow or Edinburgh has dirt roads and no street lighting and therefore must be in the backwoods despite having a constant network of trucks tramping up and down the Scottish mainland every day of the week.  The distance and the fact that the items may pass through more than one subcontractor increases the costs.  The closest we have to the Isle of Wight situation, albeit a smaller island, is the isle of Arran.  The ferry takes roughly the same length of time to cross.

I messed around with the "Calculate Shipping" link that shows on the the Manchester Guitar Tech website when you go to your basket and opens out a panel where I entered a bunch of different destinations to get an idea of the carriage costs (sorry if you say a load of weird activity there @SteveRobinson):

• A package from Manchester Guitar Tech to Ardrossan on the mainland on the West coast costs £15, whereas by ferry to a destination on the island of Arran is £66.  The ferry is government subsidised.
• A package to Gourock that is out West of Glasgow costs £15.  The government subsidised ferry to Dunoon on the mainland on the other side of the River Clyde estuary only takes about 15 minutes and cuts a journey from Glasgow to Dunoon down from 2 hours and 85 miles by road to 90 minutes and 34 miles via ferry.  I presume the shipping to Dunoon is calculated as being by road, because it would cost only £10 more at £25.
• Although Oban is a very frequently visited and very busy small town up the West Coast of Scotland and trucks and vans trundle up and down there from Glasgow daily, the postcode says it is "Highlands and Islands", so a Manchester Guitar Tech package there would incur the £10 surcharge and cost £25 also.  The ferry to the island of Mull only takes about 45 minutes from Oban, but the carriage costs there would be £66.

The shipping costs are the same for one or two cans of lacquer as they are for 24 cans.

I think it's really down to what can be consolidated with other goods for the ferry and what cannot.  It would be great if they could just be sent via Royal Mail, but they can't.

paulnb57

BillDL said:

I had no idea that the Isle of Wight mail was treated as "mainland", but I suppose there's enough of it going over every day to make it worthwhile and keep the costs as though they are mainland.  The Royal Mail van on the Island that goes over to Southampton, or the one that goes over to Cowes, probably doesn't pay for the ferry or has heavily subsidised fare, whereas couriers vans will pay the full whack.

It's interesting, because in Scotland we have the situation that anything deemed Highlands and Islands has higher carriage costs by courier companies.  You have to watch like a hawk, because some companies in England selling things seem to think that any postcode North of Glasgow or Edinburgh has dirt roads and no street lighting and therefore must be in the backwoods despite having a constant network of trucks tramping up and down the Scottish mainland every day of the week.  The distance and the fact that the items may pass through more than one subcontractor increases the costs.  The closest we have to the Isle of Wight situation, albeit a smaller island, is the isle of Arran.  The ferry takes roughly the same length of time to cross.

I messed around with the "Calculate Shipping" link that shows on the the Manchester Guitar Tech website when you go to your basket and opens out a panel where I entered a bunch of different destinations to get an idea of the carriage costs (sorry if you say a load of weird activity there @SteveRobinson):

• A package from Manchester Guitar Tech to Ardrossan on the mainland on the West coast costs £15, whereas by ferry to a destination on the island of Arran is £66.  The ferry is government subsidised.
• A package to Gourock that is out West of Glasgow costs £15.  The government subsidised ferry to Dunoon on the mainland on the other side of the River Clyde estuary only takes about 15 minutes and cuts a journey from Glasgow to Dunoon down from 2 hours and 85 miles by road to 90 minutes and 34 miles via ferry.  I presume the shipping to Dunoon is calculated as being by road, because it would cost only £10 more at £25.
• Although Oban is a very frequently visited and very busy small town up the West Coast of Scotland and trucks and vans trundle up and down there from Glasgow daily, the postcode says it is "Highlands and Islands", so a Manchester Guitar Tech package there would incur the £10 surcharge and cost £25 also.  The ferry to the island of Mull only takes about 45 minutes from Oban, but the carriage costs there would be £66.

The shipping costs are the same for one or two cans of lacquer as they are for 24 cans.

I think it's really down to what can be consolidated with other goods for the ferry and what cannot.  It would be great if they could just be sent via Royal Mail, but they can't.

There's not a lot of rhyme or reason to it really

56 quid for two aerosols, but around 100 to take my caravan over with two huge (by comparison) gas cylinders...
Electric cars are normal price and its only a matter of time before one combusts
Last time I paid over the odds for delivery (I really has no choice) I asked the courier what precautions he had to take with the parcel, NONE..it goes in the delivery van along with everything else for that days delivery, no special treatment or a parcel safe or whatever, with very few exceptions (UPS) is one, parcels go to a hub on the mainland and generally one lorry brings it all over to a  hub on the Island then they are delivered by local couriers exceptions are RM  UPS 
UPS are usually about 50 quid to send a guitar as they use their own vans to collect/deliver, RM insured would be about 20/25 where the rest use third party couriers similar price to RM.

SteveRobinson

BillDL said:

I messed around with the "Calculate Shipping" link that shows on the the Manchester Guitar Tech website when you go to your basket and opens out a panel where I entered a bunch of different destinations to get an idea of the carriage costs (sorry if you say a load of weird activity there @SteveRobinson):

No problem. If you'd asked I could have sent you a spreadsheet of postcode regions and saved you the bother.

The Scottish Highlands ones do seem quite arbitrary and differ from those defined by (e.g.) DHL.

Anyhow, I charge £12 for most regions (any size order and some are very large) but it actually costs me more even without factoring in boxes, packing materials etc.. I "lose" money on carriage every shipment and absorb the cost.

fretmeister

ICBM said:

prowla said:

Should’ve explained it’s not nitroglycerin!

In a slightly different form, nitrocellulose is called guncotton and was used as a shell propellant, so it could definitely be classed as an explosive.

It is classed as explosive. I use a bit for magic shows.

Get above a certain weight and it’s supposed to be shipped wet to cut down on the risk of accidental ignition.

99% of magic suppliers seem to ignore that though.

I’ve got a load of it that was stored in a cupboard above my hob for a while…

Kittyfrisk

fretmeister said:

ICBM said:

prowla said:

Should’ve explained it’s not nitroglycerin!

In a slightly different form, nitrocellulose is called guncotton and was used as a shell propellant, so it could definitely be classed as an explosive.

It is classed as explosive. I use a bit for magic shows.

Get above a certain weight and it’s supposed to be shipped wet to cut down on the risk of accidental ignition.

99% of magic suppliers seem to ignore that though.

I’ve got a load of it that was stored in a cupboard above my hob for a while…