Pickup cradle

Seziertisch

http://www.luthiertool.com/pickup-cradle.html

Anyone have hands on experience with this?

MartinB

I haven't seen this one, but having messed with assorted soundhole pickups l have some thoughts. Firstly, it covers a lot of the soundhole, so if you're going to leave it in place it will really do a number on the acoustic sound. Secondly, a lot of electric guitar pickups really benefit from having the strings grounded to reduce hum, and that's a hassle to arrange with a typical acoustic. So it might still involve more DIY faffing than you might want.

So I'd be more inclined to go for a pickup designed from the outset as a soundhole pickup, and boost and EQ it if I want a more electric guitar type sound.

ICBM

I've made a couple of DIY versions of that in the past, out of pickguard material. They do work, but as MartinB says they block the soundhole quite a lot. On the other hand for the purposes required, to amplify a cheap acoustic for someone who doesn't really care about the acoustic sound it's fine. I made them with two equal-sized plates, with a larger hole in the lower one so the pickup end lugs clear it, just screwed together through the space at either end - so not intended to be taken in and out.

Like this, but I did it with a single piece inside like the outside one, rather than the two strips, and with the screws at the ends either side of the pickup height screws, not the sides - 



https://www.instructables.com/Electrifying-Your-Acoustic-Guitar-on-the-Cheap/

The lack of string grounding is a problem if you don't use a fully-enclosed metal-covered humbucker, but not so much if you do.

Call me shallow, but I'd only be interested in this commercial version if the lettering on the front comes off with solvent or brasso - it looks really ugly.

Seziertisch

I previously had a LR Baggs M80 in a couple of guitars and found that it had the effect of deadening the tops quite noticeably, presumably owing to the extra weight. 

The appeal of the cradle is that it can be (un)installed very quickly.

BillDL

"This new innovative device has taken the acoustic guitar into another realm".

Like @ICBM I've made a variety of "new innovative" pickup "cradles" over the years from a few different things including pickguard material and pieces of spare wood, so there's nothing "new" about the idea at all.  Some I just cobbled together and others I tried to make them look neat and gave them nicely fashioned mounting wings.  I'm pretty sure we won't have been the only two people around the globe that have had the same idea and put together our own versions either.  It bugs me when people take a well used and acknowledged idea, refine it a bit and put it into production as a commercial product, and try to claim the idea as their own unique one.  It's a bit like all the YouTube videos that announce some "genius hack" that just about everybody else already knew about and dismissed years ago because it wasn't really a great idea to begin with.

Seziertisch

BillDL said:

"This new innovative device has taken the acoustic guitar into another realm".

Like @ICBM I've made a variety of "new innovative" pickup "cradles" over the years from a few different things including pickguard material and pieces of spare wood, so there's nothing "new" about the idea at all.  Some I just cobbled together and others I tried to make them look neat and gave them nicely fashioned mounting wings.  I'm pretty sure we won't have been the only two people around the globe that have had the same idea and put together our own versions either.  It bugs me when people take a well used and acknowledged idea, refine it a bit and put it into production as a commercial product, and try to claim the idea as their own unique one.  It's a bit like all the YouTube videos that announce some "genius hack" that just about everybody else already knew about and dismissed years ago because it wasn't really a great idea to begin with.

It is innovative insofar as they sell plates for 6 or 7 dollars allowing you to install different pickups into the cradle … though maybe describing it as innovative is a bit of a stretch.

ICBM

I forgot to mention, I didn’t even come up with the idea myself - although as Bill says it’s hardly Einstein level even if I had - I owned one of these in the early 90s…

https://reverb.com/uk/item/84130008-rare-bartolini-3av-1993-new-in-original-box

One of the perspex mounting clamps was broken, so I improvised a solution.

I wish I’d gone to the trouble of properly making a new clamp from perspex after I found out how much they were going for due to the Kurt Cobain connection.

Soupman

The question to me is why?

If it's just to amplify an acoustic for fun, cheap soundhole pickups are readily available.
I use a Baggs m1a - a screw clamp at either side and a plug-in lead to the strap-jack. Not cheap, but not difficult to remove.

If the idea is to make an Encore acoustic sound like a Les Paul then good luck with it. 
Keep us posted if you go with this, could be interesting.
 
 

ICBM

Soupman said:

The question to me is why?

If it's just to amplify an acoustic for fun, cheap soundhole pickups are readily available.
I use a Baggs m1a - a screw clamp at either side and a plug-in lead to the strap-jack. Not cheap, but not difficult to remove.

If the idea is to make an Encore acoustic sound like a Les Paul then good luck with it.

I really like the sound of an overdriven magnetic pickup in an acoustic guitar - it’s completely different from an electric guitar, even a semi-hollow. But most modern soundhole pickups are designed to sound as ‘acoustic’ as possible, so they’re usually quite scooped-sounding and (unless active) fairly low output, which is the opposite of what you need for overdrive, especially with a low-gain valve amp which is the type of sound that seems to go best with it.

Some older magnetic pickups do work quite well, although they’re usually the ones that aren’t so highly regarded as acoustic pickups now, for exactly that reason. Famously, Grant-Lee Phillips (Grant Lee Buffalo) used Dean Markley and DiMarzio soundhole pickups in a Takamine 12-string, through a Boss Metal Zone (really!) into a Fender Twin.

I’ve used both a Fishman Rare Earth and a Baggs M1A too - both are obviously active and much higher output, so they do drive an amp quite well. Of the two the Fishman was better - the Baggs fed back much worse, it’s deliberately designed to be body-movement sensitive which gives a more natural acoustic sound, but that’s actually a problem for this application. An electric guitar pickup in an acoustic will get you there a lot more easily - discounting the hassle of actually mounting it.

Sporky

ICBM said:

Call me shallow, but I'd only be interested in this commercial version if the lettering on the front comes off with solvent or brasso - it looks really ugly.

Looks engraved to me, and I don't think that's shallow - it looks cluttered and ugly with all that text.

BillDL

One of the best soundhole pickups I have ever used is the Schaller Western III with the metal "wheels" that fit over the edges of the soundhole at the fretboard side and a spring-loaded hinged arm with another wheel that wedges it in place from the bridge side.  (The Western II was more versatile but I never had one of those). The wheels are height-adjustable as are the six polepieces. The only issue is that the spring-loaded arm is quite powerfully sprung and, being metal "wheels", they can chip the edges of the soundhole if you aren't careful.

The "Western Vintage S" (model number 10/43) was the pickup housed in a fairly slimline chromed metal case with "wings" either side.  The Western I, II, and III are the ones in the are in chunky black grained plastic housings.

Western I (model 209) has a rotary volume control.
Western II (model 210) has a rotary volume control and a 4 position silver-topped "mode" switch allowing the player to select full humbucking, out of phase, single coil, or standby.
Western III (model 214) has no volume control or mode switch.

The only drawback with this design is that a cable with a 3.5mm mono plug that connects with the pickup needs to trail out of the soundhole and across the guitar soundboard.  Most people just taped the cable to the side of the guitar.

The next best soundhole pickup I've had was one I made around 1982 from a very shallow single coil pickup in a crappy old odd-shaped cheapo Satellite electric.  The type with the multi-laminate neck, angled wire string retainer for all the strings on the headstock, and the slider switches on the scratchplate.  I stripped the coil out the chrome housing, wax potted it, and epoxied it into a nice wooden completely enclosed case with wings that I made from 3 layers of maple, sanded nice and smooth and rounded, stained and wax polished.  I hard-wired a thin shielded cable into it. Hey presto, a Seymour Duncan "Woody" long before they started making them.  I still have that pickup but I need to replace the perished foam on the wings and pivoting clamps that go under the soundboard.  It sounds fantastic.

MartinB

I have an old Bill Lawrence FT145 that I enjoy for plugging into electric guitar amps. The output is not too much lower than most electric guitars, within the range where you can just turn up a little more or use a boost pedal. They're a simple, older pickup design, not overly sparkly like some of the newer neodymium magnet jobbies. It's about the easiest design to pop in temporarily, too. Only annoying quirk with mine is a hot B string with normal acoustic strings. I have a single piece of one of those snap-off craft knife blades taped to the top of the pickup under the B string, which softens it a touch.

There's a newer reissue, but I'm not sure if they're the same internally. Mine is an old one from before the company split.

Seziertisch

BillDL said:

One of the best soundhole pickups I have ever used is the Schaller Western III with the metal "wheels" that fit over the edges of the soundhole at the fretboard side and a spring-loaded hinged arm with another wheel that wedges it in place from the bridge side.  (The Western II was more versatile but I never had one of those). The wheels are height-adjustable as are the six polepieces. The only issue is that the spring-loaded arm is quite powerfully sprung and, being metal "wheels", they can chip the edges of the soundhole if you aren't careful.

The "Western Vintage S" (model number 10/43) was the pickup housed in a fairly slimline chromed metal case with "wings" either side.  The Western I, II, and III are the ones in the are in chunky black grained plastic housings.

Western I (model 209) has a rotary volume control.
Western II (model 210) has a rotary volume control and a 4 position silver-topped "mode" switch allowing the player to select full humbucking, out of phase, single coil, or standby.
Western III (model 214) has no volume control or mode switch.

The only drawback with this design is that a cable with a 3.5mm mono plug that connects with the pickup needs to trail out of the soundhole and across the guitar soundboard.  Most people just taped the cable to the side of the guitar.

The next best soundhole pickup I've had was one I made around 1982 from a very shallow single coil pickup in a crappy old odd-shaped cheapo Satellite electric.  The type with the multi-laminate neck, angled wire string retainer for all the strings on the headstock, and the slider switches on the scratchplate.  I stripped the coil out the chrome housing, wax potted it, and epoxied it into a nice wooden completely enclosed case with wings that I made from 3 layers of maple, sanded nice and smooth and rounded, stained and wax polished.  I hard-wired a thin shielded cable into it. Hey presto, a Seymour Duncan "Woody" long before they started making them.  I still have that pickup but I need to replace the perished foam on the wings and pivoting clamps that go under the soundboard.  It sounds fantastic.

Have you used the Schaller plugged into a guitar amp?

BillDL

Yes, it worked pretty well through an EQ pedal into a standard guitar amp, but better still into an acoustic amp.  It's never going to sound a whole lot like a mic'd acoustic or even have that typical piezo quack of an Ovation, but surprisingly it does capture some acoustic elements so you know it's definitely not a semi-acoustic or hollowbody electric.

Seziertisch

I pulled the trigger on this for 28 quid. Risking it for a biscuit as they say.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/276554105654?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=61Zd0HkqTHq&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=MQvzNHW8QY-&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY