My new bass journey ...

OilCityPickups

Please excuse a lot of this as 'thinking aloud' . Being a 'doghouse player' is a bit of a lonely existence: very little info out there for the newcomer ... or should I say, not much if you don't want to play orchestral or jazz. 

Well I adjusted the action a bit on the bass yesterday. For someone who has only worked on guitars and electric bass - admittedly for pushing 50 years - It was a bit of a daunting prospect. I mean it's a proper, grown up, orchestral instrument. I reassured myself however that if I screwed the bridge I could easily get a replacement, though a nut might be a different matter, as the bloody things are like ebony door steps on a double bass!  My Weedwhackers are huge in diameter like old gut strings, and my trusty Stentor had all of its slots cut for orchestral steel flat wounds. So everything needed a bit more relief. 
More about strings shortly ...  

A constant annoyance to me has been the tendency for the bridge to tilt forward every time you tune up. No amount of pencil lead in the bridge slots seems to stop this, I can only put this down to the lower tension of the Weedwhackers not really putting enough downforce on the bridge to keep it stable. I'm starting to get an inkling into the physics of the double bass here ... and it's fascinating. I see quite a few psychobilly players replace their conventional bridge with a part aluminium 'Duce' bridge. This has one leg that extends further forward up the bass, making it practically impossible for the bridge to fall over. A bridge falling over is a nightmare for any double bass player, as that puts the sound post at risk of falling over ... which is a bitch and requires a special tool to re-set. My engineer's brain has a bit of an idea ... one that may help out other rockabilly double bass players, a simple and cheap screw on 'third leg' that will keep the bridge at an optimum angle whatever your string tension. some workshop time required!

Strings themselves are a total pain in the arse: I'm not really happy with the Weedwhackers ... the good bit was that the were only £40 a set, and the super cheap, Chinese orchestral strings that had been on the bass ... probably since new ... were chewing up my hands.  

So a quick dive into double bass strings ... for you bass players who whinge about the cost of strings ... brother you ain't seen nuthin! I am still learning about this ... so bear with me. 

Steel cored (and sometimes nylon cored metal flatwounds. Used by classical players and a lot off jazz players. You can bow them, you can get a low, slinky action for jazz, but they are high tension and for rockabilly and psychobilly slapping they DESTROY your hands. Some super hard core players like Lee Rocker use them and you can use a magnetic pickup for some of them. These seem to start price wise at about £170 a set for Rotosound 4000s (The Bass Pixie on YouTube uses these. 
I tried a single bottom E (about £40 on its own) and hated the tension instantly ... much higher than the Weedwhackers and 'cold' in tone rather than warm and woody. Sure that would have probably improved with playing in, but the jump from the G D and A strings ... which I quite like in the nylon/kevlar Weedwackers ... would have been too great. 

Gut strings are what they would have used back in the day for rockabilly ... but oh man ... £400 a set to string up with the bits of a sheep that probably should stay inside a sheep ... NO THANKS. They may have the sound and 'tooth' to their surface that makes slapping easier ... but they absorb moisture and can even rot apparently ... and also don't last that long! Mehhhhhh not for me unless I win the lottery.

Then this takes us to the huge and baffling array of nylon and cored nylon 'gut impersonators' like my current Weedwhackers (which are the cheapest). 
These range in price from £40 to around £200 ... I should say 'when you can get them' as with any double bass strings the good ones always seem to be out of stock where ever you look (unless you live in the USA). 

Trying stuff is a super expensive pastime ... but  the Weedwhacker E string is bloody awful, and really only usable for slap up about G, It flaps and flops and farts and is like a chunk of worn out knicker elastic! So I may give Superior Bassworks Deluxe synthetic (nylon) gut a go. At £75 a set they are less eye watering than some other options! If I can find a set in the UK!!!

  

GoFish

OilCityPickups said:

Please excuse a lot of this as 'thinking aloud' . Being a 'doghouse player' is a bit of a lonely existence: very little info out there for the newcomer ... or should I say, not much if you don't want to play orchestral or jazz. .....

Not at all - this is fascinating and a bit inspring too. I'm invested in your journey now and keen to hear the next installment of strings theory or practising / musing and heading towards your goal of gigging. I woudn't have thought that a blow by blow diary of an aspiring double bass player would hold my interest as much as it has, but here we are.

OilCityPickups

GoFish said:

OilCityPickups said:

Please excuse a lot of this as 'thinking aloud' . Being a 'doghouse player' is a bit of a lonely existence: very little info out there for the newcomer ... or should I say, not much if you don't want to play orchestral or jazz. .....

Not at all - this is fascinating and a bit inspring too. I'm invested in your journey now and keen to hear the next installment of strings theory or practising / musing and heading towards your goal of gigging. I woudn't have thought that a blow by blow diary of an aspiring double bass player would hold my interest as much as it has, but here we are.

Thanks old chap :-) I actually thought I was too old a bunny to think of investing huge amounts of time to totally change instruments. 
So far double bass playing has had £550 out of me for my bass  - I think I did okay there with a nice padded case  - under half the new price ... if you can find a blonde one! 
£80 quid on strings so far ... but becoming wise to spending too much till I can justify it with my playing. 

I think my budget for amplification will have to exceed the cost of the bass ... but that's all to come. 
As soon as I get a preamp I'll record some stuff :-)  

MartinB

I'm at the jazzy end, or jazz influenced playing on folk and singer/songwriter stuff, so I don't have much useful to say on string choice for rockabilly/psychobilly slap. The most slap I'll do is a light single slap style on two-feel gypsy jazz tunes without a drummer.

But it's interesting, I'd say recent fashion in jazz is also towards gut or gut-like strings. I like bright, growly steels like Spirocores, but that sound is considered almost a bit dated lately! My current set are Prestoflex, also a bright, sustainy steel set, but I know Presto also make some steel core, nylon wound low tension sets that are more slap friendly.

OilCityPickups

MartinB said:

I'm at the jazzy end, or jazz influenced playing on folk and singer/songwriter stuff, so I don't have much useful to say on string choice for rockabilly/psychobilly slap. The most slap I'll do is a light single slap style on two-feel gypsy jazz tunes without a drummer.

But it's interesting, I'd say recent fashion in jazz is also towards gut or gut-like strings. I like bright, growly steels like Spirocores, but that sound is considered almost a bit dated lately! My current set are Prestoflex, also a bright, sustainy steel set, but I know Presto also make some steel core, nylon wound low tension sets that are more slap friendly.

Must say I'm fascinated to try Superior Bassworks Deluxe as they even have a spiral cut into the string to replicate real gut. I've always loved Bill Black's sound: fat and warm with just the right amount of 'tick' and growl. 

Adey

This thread has got me browsing eBay for double basses. Even my wife thinks that they are pretty cool. I could therefore go way up in her estimation if I got one!

OilCityPickups

Adey said:

This thread has got me browsing eBay for double basses. Even my wife thinks that they are pretty cool. I could therefore go way up in her estimation if I got one!

My wife is well impressed too ... chicks love the doghouse bass man ... 

MartinB

OilCityPickups said:

MartinB said:

I'm at the jazzy end, or jazz influenced playing on folk and singer/songwriter stuff, so I don't have much useful to say on string choice for rockabilly/psychobilly slap. The most slap I'll do is a light single slap style on two-feel gypsy jazz tunes without a drummer.

But it's interesting, I'd say recent fashion in jazz is also towards gut or gut-like strings. I like bright, growly steels like Spirocores, but that sound is considered almost a bit dated lately! My current set are Prestoflex, also a bright, sustainy steel set, but I know Presto also make some steel core, nylon wound low tension sets that are more slap friendly.

Must say I'm fascinated to try Superior Bassworks Deluxe as they even have a spiral cut into the string to replicate real gut. I've always loved Bill Black's sound: fat and warm with just the right amount of 'tick' and growl. 

I once tried a plain gut G and D on my bass, they were old stock that came up on eBay a few years ago. The G was pretty nice, but my bass is quite dark sounding (it's an old carved German flatback from around 1900) and the D was just way more dull and thumpy than I could use.

Funkfingers

OilCityPickups said:

Adey said:

This thread has got me browsing eBay for double basses. Even my wife thinks that they are pretty cool. I could therefore go way up in her estimation if I got one!

My wife is well impressed too ... chicks love the doghouse bass man ... 

My forum ID borrows the name from a product associated with Tony Levin. For upright, I would probably follow his example and use an NS Design instrument.

Meanwhile, check out these  https://www.basscentre.com/elites-signature-series/elites-danny-thompson-double-bass-strings.html

OilCityPickups

Funkfingers said:

OilCityPickups said:

Adey said:

This thread has got me browsing eBay for double basses. Even my wife thinks that they are pretty cool. I could therefore go way up in her estimation if I got one!

My wife is well impressed too ... chicks love the doghouse bass man ... 

My forum ID borrows the name from a product associated with Tony Levin. For upright, I would probably follow his example and use an NS Design instrument.

Meanwhile, check out these  https://www.basscentre.com/elites-signature-series/elites-danny-thompson-double-bass-strings.html

Thank's @Funkfingers ... I'll take a look at those. 

MartinB

Funkfingers said:

Meanwhile, check out these  https://www.basscentre.com/elites-signature-series/elites-danny-thompson-double-bass-strings.html

For slap, I wouldn't look at those. In fact, having tried a set (thankfully bought lightly used and moved on again) I wouldn't look at them at all. They're a high tension steel string similar to the Spirocore sets Danny used for years, only not as good - a little stiffer and less lively sounding. And I'm not sure Danny even used the signature strings for long - in most recent photos and videos he's back with the Spirocores which you can recognise by the red silks at the tailpiece end.

OilCityPickups

MartinB said:

Funkfingers said:

Meanwhile, check out these  https://www.basscentre.com/elites-signature-series/elites-danny-thompson-double-bass-strings.html

For slap, I wouldn't look at those. In fact, having tried a set (thankfully bought lightly used and moved on again) I wouldn't look at them at all. They're a high tension steel string similar to the Spirocore sets Danny used for years, only not as good - a little stiffer and less lively sounding. And I'm not sure Danny even used the signature strings for long - in most recent photos and videos he's back with the Spirocores which you can recognise by the red silks at the tailpiece end.

I'm debating Innovation Rockabilly Blacks (or Reds)  They get a lot of good reviews, but are a financial ouch at around £185 a set! 
I don't think I can cheap out on strings ultimately, I'm getting frustrated with the toneless 'splat' of the Weedwhackers E and the way the tension isn't balanced ... you slap at one level of attack on three strings, but if you try to attack the E with the same touch, it feels like wet string by comparison. I'm trying to nail slapping triplets, but in that respect I have a three string bass unless I move up the fingerboard on the E. Also the Whackers tuning stability is similar to Greece's economic stability ... :-) 
And as you know ... there's feck all worse when you are fighting the good fight to stay in tune with no frets ... and your strings blow raspberries and stick the Vs up at you by playing out of tune all on their own! 

OilCityPickups

Here are some positives about being a double bass player ...

You don't have to buy a strap or worry about strap locks ...  

You din't have to worry about someone sneaking your bass out under their coat at a gig .. 

Neck dive???? What's that??? 

If you get tired playing you have somewhere to sit ... 

And short of an arm full of cute puppies or kittens or a schwanz like a factory chimney ... I've never encountered  something that draws as much appreciation from the female of the species.  

ICBM

Diversion back on the amp front (it’s what I’m familiar with ) - if you can’t find a little GK at a sensible price or without a buggered speaker…

The Ibanez Promethean combo might be worth a look. I’m not sure why I didn’t think of it earlier, since I’ve got one! Super light and small 1x10” combo with a 500W amp (250 into the internal speaker) and a neat nylon shoulder bag. It’s got a tweeter - which might help for slappy acoustic bass tone - although you can dial out the high end with the ‘vibe’ control. There are two versions, the earlier 5110 model is much better. Rare, but probably cheaper than the GK.

(Edit - scrub that comment, I’ll PM you some pics .)

The old Trace Elliot BLX combos might be worth a look too - they’re stupidly heavy for something that small, but have a very deep, non-directional sound which really fills a space even at the relatively low power of 80W, or 130W for later models (at least some of which also have a tweeter). They not really a ‘rock’ amp - with an electric bass they’re more jazzy sounding and don’t punch out forwards in the way a conventional front-speaker combo does, but that’s probably what you need. Not too rare, and cheap these days especially if a bit tatty. Old-school tech inside, so easily repairable.

OilCityPickups

ICBM said:

Diversion back on the amp front (it’s what I’m familiar with ) - if you can’t find a little GK at a sensible price or without a buggered speaker…

The Ibanez Promethean combo might be worth a look. I’m not sure why I didn’t think of it earlier, since I’ve got one! Super light and small 1x10” combo with a 500W amp (250 into the internal speaker) and a neat nylon shoulder bag. It’s got a tweeter - which might help for slappy acoustic bass tone - although you can dial out the high end with the ‘vibe’ control. There are two versions, the earlier 5110 model is much better. Rare, but probably cheaper than the GK.

(I don’t think I’m selling mine… although it’s not a certainty.)

The old Trace Elliot BLX combos might be worth a look too - they’re stupidly heavy for something that small, but have a very deep, non-directional sound which really fills a space even at the relatively low power of 80W, or 130W for later models (at least some of which also have a tweeter). They not really a ‘rock’ amp - with an electric bass they’re more jazzy sounding and don’t punch out forwards in the way a conventional front-speaker combo does, but that’s probably what you need. Not too rare, and cheap these days especially if a bit tatty. Old-school tech inside, so easily repairable.

You sir are a font of wisdom. GKs seem to be at a bit of a premium at the moment ... 

Something will come up ... I still need to get my pickups/preamp sorted, though that's an easy one really. 

CaseOfAce

Been interesting read this Oil City.
If you thought bass players had it bad when it comes to a dark and distant dingy corner of the music store with a minuscule level of stock and range then this is even more niche. You really are venturing into the void here.

Weird how pound for pound The Stray Cats have had more influence on specific instrument sales than anyone I can think of.

Setzer has helped sell more Gretsch guitars than any living artist and there must be a fair few though thousand out there who took up the instrument in this thread thru Lee Rocker.

OilCityPickups

CaseOfAce said:

Been interesting read this Oil City.
If you thought bass players had it bad when it comes to a dark and distant dingy corner of the music store with a minuscule level of stock and range then this is even more niche. You really are venturing into the void here.

Weird how pound for pound The Stray Cats have had more influence on specific instrument sales than anyone I can think of.

Setzer has helped sell more Gretsch guitars than any living artist and there must be a fair few though thousand out there who took up the instrument in this thread thru Lee Rocker.

Lol I have the Gretsch hollow body guitar too :-)  

As a very small child I had the seeds of rock and roll sewn in my soul by my aunt and her Teddy Boy boyfriend (who became my uncle). In my earliest years I wasn't actually aware that basses could be solid or guitar sized ... to me ... fascinated by Sunday afternoon showings of 'The Girl Can't Help It' (I mean Jane Mansfield ... who wouldn't be) The bass was always that show-off instrument that guys were twirling or standing on.

Of course much later my interest in rock and roll and rockabilly was re ignited by bands like the Stray Cats and the Meteors. 
Yep Setzer has sold a lot of Gretsch guitars for them ... but so I'm told, we are also in a huge upswing in interest in the double bass. So who knows ... more stuff may start to become available. Check out Blast Cult basses for something to drool over! Even have removable necks for transportation.  

OilCityPickups

Well ... after advice from other bass players (doghouse bashers like myself) I've invested in a set of Rotosound 4000 strings
luckily I have a Rotosound account so not as horrible as it might have been. These are nylon core but Monel wound on the A and E ..,. that should do me for life!!! 
Playing wise all my right hand nails are smashed off flush with my fingertips from colliding with the fingerboard ... but no blisters or sore bits now. Armour plated fingertips!!!! At this rate I'll be going over to 11s on my guitars just to feel the strings!!!   

PeteBo

Your bass journey has been a most interesting read, you've even got me looking at cheapo double basses now ffs 
I only ever tried one over a short period (sometime in the 80s) we borrowed an ancient battered one for a week or so just for a lark, it was fun certainly and myself (on said bass) and the singer of the band at the time worked out a cool minimalist version of a Jaques Brel song, we were going to record it but the bastards wanted their double bass back before we had the chance. 

OilCityPickups

PeteBo said:

Your bass journey has been a most interesting read, you've even got me looking at cheapo double basses now ffs 
I only ever tried one over a short period (sometime in the 80s) we borrowed an ancient battered one for a week or so just for a lark, it was fun certainly and myself (on said bass) and the singer of the band at the time worked out a cool minimalist version of a Jaques Brel song, we were going to record it but the bastards wanted their double bass back before we had the chance. 

Well as I think I've said, mine cost me £550 - there are quite a few about at 500-600 quid. I'd avoid the super el-cheapo new Gear-4 -Music ones as I've heard they are fairly dreadful. As I said, mine is a Stentor 1950 with a laminated spruce front and laminated maple back and sides. For rock and roll and rockabilly/psychobilly you don't want a solid wood bass - way too fragile. 

Double basses are huge in size and huge in the fun factor ... I really haven't had this much of a ball playing in years.