My new bass journey ...

OilCityPickups

GoFish said:

Woah. Don't know how I missed the last few updates. What progress! In a band now. Well done that man.

Well in band and at first rehearsal so smallish steps - with ten or twelve numbers learned and a few I can fake my way through. ;-)  
Gotta say it's totally ruined me for playing my Jazz bass - it feels like a little toy with cramped together frets!  

GoFish

The pic above makes the 5420 look like a miniature, so I can understand the Fender bass being too small as well.

OilCityPickups

Well AKG radio added ... so I can leap about with the bass if I get in the swing of things. 

I may need to add another bass cabinet for gigging so I can use the Promethean amp's full possible wattage  - looking at the Markbass 15 as a possible. 

ICBM

OilCityPickups said:

I may need to add another bass cabinet for gigging so I can use the Promethean amp's full possible wattage  - looking at the Markbass 15 as a possible. 

It sounds absolutely HUGE through a 1x15" - I've got a big ported Warwick cab which I used with it, and still do with the head version. You may need to be careful with low-end feedback for your application though - it's bad enough with my little Tanglewood 'rubber band bass'. It's also very substantially less portable, even though the speaker is a Neo and it's not heavy for a cab that size - a good modern 1x12" might be the best of both worlds (even though traditionally it's not a popular speaker size for bass).

OilCityPickups

ICBM said:

OilCityPickups said:

I may need to add another bass cabinet for gigging so I can use the Promethean amp's full possible wattage  - looking at the Markbass 15 as a possible. 

It sounds absolutely HUGE through a 1x15" - I've got a big ported Warwick cab which I used with it, and still do with the head version. You may need to be careful with low-end feedback for your application though - it's bad enough with my little Tanglewood 'rubber band bass'. It's also very substantially less portable, even though the speaker is a Neo and it's not heavy for a cab that size - a good modern 1x12" might be the best of both worlds (even though traditionally it's not a popular speaker size for bass).

My Rockabilly Pro preamp has various filters a phase button that make handling feedback pretty simple ... add to which now I'm wireless I'm a bit more mobile to get out of the road! 

OilCityPickups

Well learning the second batch of ten songs for the band is progressing well: the fingerboard is looking less of a blank and confusing wasteland than it did a few weeks ago. Joining a band with an extensive repertoire that includes originals is a challenge. I've only ever done this infrequently - and only ever on guitar, where I was the one with the repertoire and everyone else was learning my stuff. This is a scary but strangely liberating experience. 

I'm also finding there's a quite extraordinary brotherhood (and as there are so many female players: sisterhood) amongst upright bass players. It really doesn't seem to matter if we are orchestral players jazzers or psychobilly's - we have the most difficult instrument to transport, and one that's uniquely challenging physically and musically. 
I'm coming to learn that in addition to the stomping rockabilly slap that gained my bass her nickname 'Bessie Boom Boom' - this instrument that I now share my life with (and you very much 'share your life' with a double bass, both  in space and blisters) is capable of some of the most extraordinary lyrical and moving sounds.
I've not been able to help myself but learn some jazz progressions and start to at least try to play 'pizz' (pizzicato) 'properly' with right hand fingers almost parallel with the strings - something you immediately find gives you greater volume and roundness - set against the two finger 'spider crawl' that many bass guitar players use (which is hopeless on a 'double').

Sure 'Madam Boom Boom' is mostly going to thunder out stuff like Tear It Up by Johnny Burnette and Bill Black's genius popping bubble that underpins Baby Let's Play House by Elvis - but there's more to explore in my non-band time. 

I have some housekeeping jobs to do on Bessie - like my bridge saddle needs to be properly reshaped - my hastily lowered action has left bridge slots that are too deep and while they are not creating any major issue ... they're unsightly.

When I do that job I'll share here. 


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OilCityPickups

Well today I neatened up the top of my bridge in the workshop. The action was initially hugely high with this bass even with the bridge height adjustors fully screwed in so I'd deepened the bridge slots till the action was a little low then raised the adjusters a tad so I have a bit of wiggle room. The top of my bridge didn't look too pretty after this, and deep bridge slots will rob tone, so I tool the bridge off and planed and sanded it back to the correct width and front curve. Looks and feels so much better.  

Lawriejones1

Looks lovely. I currently have two DBs, a Musicman ply bass and a Stentor Elysia (recently taken delivery).

It’s a wonderful instrument to play and is so delicate. Once you get the technique down you realise how little pressure you need to apply to get a lovely sound.

Sure, I’m no Ron Carter or anything but I can coax a pleasing sound from it. However it does take several months until you find the sweet spot I found.

OilCityPickups

Glad to know there's yet another aficionado of the musical wardrobe of doom here :-) 

Being of the rockabilly/psychobilly persuasion my own bass is more of the 'thunderous beat' use case - rather than the delicate jazz pizzicato. My action having to be a bit higher to get under the strings for plenty of slap. For my sort of gigging a ply bass is ideal ... it's going to get rough and tumble so un-breakability is top of the concerns, and it's mostly going to be played through 500w of bass amplification, so acoustic sound is a secondary concern. 

I'd love to get a more delicate second bass mind ... but flat living is tough enough space wise with 'Bessie Boom Boom' as my wife christened her.   

Lawriejones1

OilCityPickups said:

Glad to know there's yet another aficionado of the musical wardrobe of doom here :-) 

Being of the rockabilly/psychobilly persuasion my own bass is more of the 'thunderous beat' use case - rather than the delicate jazz pizzicato. My action having to be a bit higher to get under the strings for plenty of slap. For my sort of gigging a ply bass is ideal ... it's going to get rough and tumble so un-breakability is top of the concerns, and it's mostly going to be played through 500w of bass amplification, so acoustic sound is a secondary concern. 

I'd love to get a more delicate second bass mind ... but flat living is tough enough space wise with 'Bessie Boom Boom' as my wife christened her.   

I think for 90% of gigs a ply bass is perfect.

I can’t believe I’ve ended up with two. It’s certainly overkill given my skill level.

OilCityPickups

So - rehearsal has come to a bit of a break while we hunt down a new drummer. Can't say I'm unhappy at losing our old one: 
there are many instruments you can get away with not especially being a 'team player' on - but drums ain't one of them. Myself and the drummer were brought into the band at the same time to compliment a guitarist and vocalist who have worked for years together and who really have their shit dialled in. It was a pretty large ask as a new double bass player to learn all a band's back catalogue while still becoming proficient - but I've worked my arse off. 
Unfortunately the drummer showed no inclination to learn the material - so to cut a long and rather trying story short - he had to go. 
In the mean time I decided to address one of my bass playing issues - I was able to slap (with a fair bit of effort) all the strings bar the A string reliably - the A was just too heavy to batter down to the fingerboard with any reliability. I needed to get a bit more string flexibility ... so I decided to 'bump' my Rotosound 4000 bass set. That is, to substitute a C string from the five string upright bass set (available separately) make that the G by tuning down, and move all the other strings over ... 
Thus the A became the E etc. 
After a bit of getting used to (I initially was playing a bit out of tune) I started to fly. Fast 'psychobilly style' slap that had previously eluded me now started happening, and drag triplets started to just 'work'. 

So my advice to double bass players who might be struggling with speed and quality of slap - bump a set of 'Rotos' - they are way cheaper than many sets that claim to be 'rockabilly' or 'psychobilly' - and sound great.

We are meeting a prospective replacement drummer this week, so fingers crossed.  

OilCityPickups

Things I need to upgrade on my double bass: 

The fecking endpin ... it drives me nuts. The ludicrously long part inside the bass resonates sympathetically unless you have it in just one position - you get a weird, high pitched fart on any note on the G string unless you have pretty much precisely six inches of endpin out. I kid you not there's sill ten inches of pin inside the bass even then!!! Clearly designed for bass players who double at basketball! The plug part of the endpin is also cheapo plastic instead of ebony or rosewood and is at a slightly wonky angle ... so I think a new endpin assembly may be on the cards soon. 
Also the lower tension of the bumped Rotosound 4000 set has shown up how utterly shite Stentor bass tuners are ... I mean comically rough. Luckily you don't have to do a lot of tuning on a 'musical wardrobe of doom' :-)  However a new and nicer set of tuners will go on the list. 

Ideally I'd like a tripod style aluminium bridge too ... which removes the worry of a kamikaze bridge fall over with lower tension strings ... but when you can find them they tend to go for about £300 - so perhaps not ...    

Lawriejones1

OilCityPickups said:

Things I need to upgrade on my double bass: 

The fecking endpin ... it drives me nuts. The ludicrously long part inside the bass resonates sympathetically unless you have it in just one position - you get a weird, high pitched fart on any note on the G string unless you have pretty much precisely six inches of endpin out. I kid you not there's sill ten inches of pin inside the bass even then!!! Clearly designed for bass players who double at basketball! The plug part of the endpin is also cheapo plastic instead of ebony or rosewood and is at a slightly wonky angle ... so I think a new endpin assembly may be on the cards soon. 
Also the lower tension of the bumped Rotosound 4000 set has shown up how utterly shite Stentor bass tuners are ... I mean comically rough. Luckily you don't have to do a lot of tuning on a 'musical wardrobe of doom' :-)  However a new and nicer set of tuners will go on the list. 

Ideally I'd like a tripod style aluminium bridge too ... which removes the worry of a kamikaze bridge fall over with lower tension strings ... but when you can find them they tend to go for about £300 - so perhaps not ...    

I had this problems and so I made a solid wood endpin. It's easy enough and works now for specific gigs where I need the bass to be solid, like when I'm playing outdoors or in dive bars.
Preview
You can also get heavier spike poles (titanuium, etc.) that can stop this issue too.

OilCityPickups

I'd take my spike out and lop ten inches if i could - however the inner end has a roll pin that stops it coming out completely - gurrrrrr - I'll have to take the whole and pin plug and spike out - which of course involves slackening off my strings - risking a falling sound post - and unhitching my preamp and radio transmitter. Oh well ... I may wait to see if we get our new drummer (meeting tonight) - if things are still on hold I'll do the deed! 

MartinB

You could always pull the spike out several inches further than you need, saw it off, then push the junk section inside and play the fun game of fishing it out through the F holes.

I think I'd just detune and pull out the whole assembly though - if the bass is laid on its side, G side downwards and you don't move it around unstrung, the chances of the soundpost shifting are tiny.

Al_Nico

Last time I looked here you weren't sure what strings to put on, and your fingers hurt. Now you're in a band working on how to get the instrument above your head on stage. That's progress.

OilCityPickups

Al_Nico said:

Last time I looked here you weren't sure what strings to put on, and your fingers hurt. Now you're in a band working on how to get the instrument above your head on stage. That's progress.

The band is the Cobras ... rockabilly warriors since 1986 ...  

OilCityPickups

And we now officially have our new drummer 'Del Boy' and we can start looking to our first gig. My fingers held up pretty well to what amounted to a full gigs worth of numbers in the rehearsal room last night. Mind you I'm knackered and a bit sore in the right arm and fingers after a 7-11 blast that was pretty much full on the whole time. 

Notes to take away ... my G is a bit loud and strident compared with my other strings - am going to try swapping bridge sides with my piezo bridge pickup to get it away from the treble side. otherwise I may have to try a different string brand to get thins even. Sounds fine acoustically so I'm guessing it must be pickup related. 

A bit disappointed with wireless system - it produces an odd brief 'hiss' or squelch noise after notes so I didn't use it at the rehearsal. If I can't sort it I'll have to get something a bit more expensive. All a learning curve. 

OilCityPickups

An update ... well the swapping the sides of the piezo pickup worked perfectly for calming the strident G ... I don't see this any installation instructions for double bass bridge pickups ... but by the lord Harry it works! 

Getting used to the bumped Roto 4000s, and while they seemed a bit flimsy at first ... my right hand seems to have adapted, and I can thrash these as hard as I did the full fat set! My right hand naturally falls lower on the strings for a firmer feel ... result. 

Now here's a funny thing ... I've never been good at singing and playing guitar ... and even worse at singing and playing electric bass guitar. I'd kinda written the whole art off ... and anyway at the moment the most singing I'm doing with my band is a bit of backing vocals ...
but here's a big however: in the last few evenings I've been dicking about with all sorts of old rock and roll and rockabilly tunes and singing them accompanying myself on double bass. I can't do that on my Jazz bass - how fecking weird is that? 
The insane thing is that my left hand seems to have developed a bit of a life of its own, and I'm doing shifting walking basslines without actually consciously thinking  'oooo I'll do it that way for this verse. Autopilot has entered the room it would seem. 

I may have to beg for a couple of numbers on vocals and bass in the set ... never thought I'd say that! 

The Ibanez Promethean amp I obtained from @ICBM is absolutely worth it's weight in gold. On it's own it's plenty loud enough for little gigs and rehearsals - has a graphic EQ which is ideal for double bass - and is bloody tiny and stupid light. When you are lugging a musical wardrobe, the least extra weight and bulk the better! For gigging volumes I'm using a 250w TC Electronic 2x12 as an extension cab for a nominal 500w (probably more like 300w but it moves a lot of air ... so projects like a bugger). 

Now I really really really need to fit better tuners to the bass ... the factory ones are about as high quality as 40 quid nylon strung acoustic tuners .. that is, as rough as a rough thing with added graunchy bits. Around 80 quid gets a set of Chinese made 'German style' tuners, that will need some screw holes plugged to fit ... they look to be solid brass, but they may be a bit of a lottery ... will let you guys know if I take the plunge. 

Anyway enough musings from a superannuated doghouse banger ... keep it four strings and FAT 

Al_Nico

It may be that the bass becomes tricky when you sing? Try singing without the bass. I did this and it confirmed there must be something else preventing my voice from operating correctly. I had a bit of heartburn, so it was probably that.

Maybe it wold work if you take the tuners off and run them through a pebble tumbler, down to a fine grade. Re-assemble with dry lube and quality screws and they will glide like someone took the time to take all the rough edges off, and assemble them with dry lube and new screws?