Mis-representing your gear for sale (UPDATE: now resolved)

harrisonlg81

Bought a guitar on here last Friday. It was advertised as a Fender 62 custom with bigsby - specifically a Ltd Run with USA Texas Special pickups. I was told this again in person when I went to buy it. 

It turns out the guitar is not the Ltd run model claimed and does not feature Texas Special pickups. Seller refusing to refund - advice please guys? 

floeighty2

Depends how you paid possibly? PayPal Goods and services and you can claim. Cash or bank transfer is a whole kettle of fish.  Have you spoken to the seller to talk it through and say your concerns? 

(Just reread and saw you have spoken to them already) 

What is the reason they have refused the refund if they have clearly stated something which was false?  If that had been me I’d have refunded you straight away and been embarrassed that I mislead anyone.  Caveat emptor is prudent, but hard to prove at the point of sale on this without a screwdriver and goodwill from the seller 

Roland

The forum is not responsible for commercial transactions between members. However we do have a Trading Feedback section where members can leave comments about their transactions. https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/57311/how-the-feedback-system-works

harrisonlg81

floeighty2 said:

Depends how you paid possibly? PayPal Goods and services and you can claim. Cash or bank transfer is a whole kettle of fish.  Have you spoken to the seller to talk it through and say your concerns? 

Bank transfer in person. Seller claims he needs to get in touch with the chap he bought it from which has nothing to do with me.

theatreanchor

I’d be pretty cheesed off if I was the OP, and want the deal reversed and money back quick sharp. Not up to me though. 

floeighty2

harrisonlg81 said:

floeighty2 said:

Depends how you paid possibly? PayPal Goods and services and you can claim. Cash or bank transfer is a whole kettle of fish.  Have you spoken to the seller to talk it through and say your concerns? 

Bank transfer in person. Seller claims he needs to get in touch with the chap he bought it from which has nothing to do with me.

He should have really done his research before he purchased and before he sold on again. The responsibility lies with him for not representing his item correctly, but can see where he has come from.  Doesn’t matter at this point if he gets in touch with the person who sold it to him as they could give the same story and it could go on and on.  I guess the seller was as convinced as you were when they bought it too and never did any digging to check possibly. 

Lewy

The misrepresentation isn't necessarily a malicious act if they genuinely believed the guitar was a certain model, but if they stated it as fact as part of the sale then really it's on them to refund you if you're not happy. Saying that they need to go back to who they bought it from etc is bollocks imho. It's unfortunate for them, but it's their problem and they shouldn't be making it your problem.

I can't see an ad that fits that description in the classifieds?

harrisonlg81

Lewy said:

The misrepresentation isn't necessarily a malicious act if they genuinely believed the guitar was a certain model, but if they stated it as fact as part of the sale then really it's on them to refund you if you're not happy. Saying that they need to go back to who they bought it from etc is bollocks imho. It's unfortunate for them, but it's their problem and they shouldn't be making it your problem.

I can't see an ad that fits that description in the classifieds?

It was up for sale alongside a Kithara Harland which is still there

daisie_guitar

harrisonlg81 said:

Lewy said:

The misrepresentation isn't necessarily a malicious act if they genuinely believed the guitar was a certain model, but if they stated it as fact as part of the sale then really it's on them to refund you if you're not happy. Saying that they need to go back to who they bought it from etc is bollocks imho. It's unfortunate for them, but it's their problem and they shouldn't be making it your problem.

I can't see an ad that fits that description in the classifieds?

It was up for sale alongside a Kithara Harland which is still there

He has removed the tele from the post, which is against forum rules: https://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/269345/fs-ft-kithara-harland-1700-telecaster-now-sold/p1

Gandalph

Hopefully the seller will respond. Deleting all details about the telecaster doesn't look good though. 

Cols

harrisonlg81 said:

floeighty2 said:

Depends how you paid possibly? PayPal Goods and services and you can claim. Cash or bank transfer is a whole kettle of fish.  Have you spoken to the seller to talk it through and say your concerns? 

Bank transfer in person. Seller claims he needs to get in touch with the chap he bought it from which has nothing to do with me.

Well, you know where he lives…

The fair and honest thing would be for him to look over the guitar together, agree whether or not it’s a Ltd Run with USA Texas Special pickups, and if it’s not then either take it back for a full refund or compensate you for the difference in value.

Out of interest, what’s the difference between this and a regular Bigsbyed Custom?

harrisonlg81

It was advertised as a TL62B-100BTX - the good thing with the Jap stuff is they stamp the model number on the neck pocket and it’s actually a TL62B-BIGS 

the difference is the USA Texas Special Pickups as opposed to the jap 60’s vintage pickups 

TheMarlin

This is shameful. 

chris78

This won’t be popular, but if you collected in person it’s your job to make sure the guitar you’re buying is right. 

To be honest, Texas specials are awful so you’ve not lost out.

Snags

chris78 said:

This won’t be popular, but if you collected in person it’s your job to make sure the guitar you’re buying is right. 

To be honest, Texas specials are awful so you’ve not lost out.

Whilst that's true on paper, if the definitive marks are inside the neck pocket I doubt the prospective seller would be too happy about someone "just popping the neck off" to check. I'd certainly tell anyone who wanted to do that to think again, unless we're talking obscene money - but if it was obscene money I'd have done all the authentication and had the provenance anyway.

Offset

What an extremely... disappointing espisode.  What the seller was told by the the person from whom he originally bought the guitar is utterly irrelevant as far as the OP is concerned.  I hope you can reach a satisfactory conclusion here @harrisonlg81. ;

Dodge

This is all rather unfortunate.  Giving the seller the benefit of the doubt at the point and assuming he / she didn't know what they had - the right thing to do would to either refund and have it back, or a partial refund if you're open to it.

From Which:

When you buy from an individual (as opposed to a retailer), the Consumer Rights Act says that the goods you get must be as they were described to you by the seller.

There's no obligation on the seller to disclose any faults, but misrepresenting goods isn't allowed.

If you can gain proof of the description (either PMs or ask a mod like @Roland ;to restore the content in the advert and lock the thread as it's been deleted) I imagine you could look at the small claims court and the stress / hassle that goes with that.

Sorry to hear about this though mate, I hope the seller does the right thing.

Funkfingers

harrisonlg81 said:

It was advertised as a TL62B-100BTX … it’s actually a TL62B-BIGS 

Assuming that there is a difference between the market values of these two variants, would a partial refund be an acceptable solution to both parties?

euan

harrisonlg81 said:

It was advertised as a TL62B-100BTX - the good thing with the Jap stuff is they stamp the model number on the neck pocket and it’s actually a TL62B-BIGS 

the difference is the USA Texas Special Pickups as opposed to the jap 60’s vintage pickups 

Isn’t the difference also the the 100 denotes it’s a premium version and therefore adler body rather than basswood?

danishbacon

Caveat emptor is, in principle, the reality of transacting the general public, I would expect it to be more applicable at a car boot sale or purchasing from an anonymous vendor in Kash a random car park. 

One of the benefits of this community is that you get to meet and trade with mutual enthusiasts, who often have a public reputation on the forum, and a vested interest maintaining a community that adds value to its members, be through knowledge exchange, or the however unfounded expectation that when you do a deal on here you’re not going to get done over, especially when it pertains to these more obscure and less obvious nuances. 

A couple of years ago, I bought an £8500 instrument from someone in a local community. When I got home and changed the strings I realised the headstock had a break and repair that was very well concealed. 

His answer? “I’m sick to my stomach mate, bring it back, let’s undo the deal and I’ll have a chat with who sold it to me”. It doesn’t take much to do the right thing - it does, however, take effort to skirt the issue, deflect and ultimately protect your individual interest at the cost of ‘passing the buck’ so to speak. 

Offset

^^ Great post.