Is anyone using these guitar cab style FRFR speakers for live backline?

gearaddict

I had been thinking about going with something like the Laney LFR-112 or the Fender one but I see quite a few posts and videos of people using these FRFR speakers then moving on to other solutions, or saying they prefer a power amp -> traditional guitar cab.

It feels like a good solution to a number of problems...but not if it sounds bad I guess.

Anyone here using them and happy with them? Or used them and decided they are not that great?

Voxman

I gig with Headrush FRFR 108's. The most important thing is for audience facing to get FRFR's off the floor - I have mine on Tripods. Although I have two of these, because these are so loud I've never actually needed a second one although sometimes I'll use the second on the floor for foldback.  The Laney units are very good & have cabinet modelling but these are more expensive and heavier.  For my needs the 108's are really loud, sound good, and at only around 19lbs are easy to carry which at my age and with a bad back is a big factor.  I can carry a guitar in one hand, FRFR108 (in a Tote bag) in the other, with my mfx gig bag over my shoulder. 

Here's some live gig clips using my Vox Tonelab LE through a single FRFR108 mounted on a tripod on the left of the vid. My last band were pretty loud and the FRFR108 was only around half way! 

gearaddict

Voxman said:

I gig with Headrush FRFR 108's. The most important thing is for audience facing to get FRFR's off the floor - I have mine on Tripods. Although I have two of these, because these are so loud I've never actually needed a second one although sometimes I'll use the second on the floor for foldback.  The Laney units are very good & have cabinet modelling but these are more expensive and heavier.  For my needs the 108's are really loud, sound good, and at only around 19lbs are easy to carry which at my age and with a bad back is a big factor.  I can carry a guitar in one hand, FRFR108 (in a Tote bag) in the other, with my mfx gig bag over my shoulder. 

Huh - sounds pretty good to me! So is the Headrush the only place you have guitar coming through? None in the main PA or other monitors? I can imagine my band complaining they can't hear the guitars, curmudgeonly lot that they are!

lustycourtier

Yeah I use a powercab, as a monitor with a line out to PA. Never had as many compliments in 30 years of playing as Ive had since I started with this set up 

grungebob

I don’t gig anymore but I’ve got the Headrush FR108 ii. 

Really loud when you need it to be and quiet when you don’t. 

The Bluetooth built in is ace as I just stream my backing tracks to it directly and adjust the speakers aux volume to taste.  Also has a high pass filter built in, plus line out if you want to send to FOH. 

Very light speaker and seems to convey sound without tainting it. 

gearaddict

lustycourtier said:

Yeah I use a powercab, as a monitor with a line out to PA. Never had as many compliments in 30 years of playing as Ive had since I started with this set up 

The Line6 powercab?

willo

Gigged with Headrush 108 and also into the PA - worked well for me. First gig with the Fender FR12 coming up this weekend.

At some level, every person we see talking about gear is always buying something new, otherwise what is there to talk about? I don't think that means anything specifically about their past gear. 

monquixote

My view is if you are using FRFR on stage it's just a random bit of PA that the sound engineer isn't in control of and why not put it through the main PA?

gearaddict

monquixote said:

My view is if you are using FRFR on stage it's just a random bit of PA that the sound engineer isn't in control of and why not put it through the main PA?

Coz then you can’t hear it, I guess. Unless you are using IEMs or just happy to hear yourself through foldback monitors.

Col_Decker

I gig with a Helix LT into a Fender FR12. It's certainly loud enough by itself for smaller gigs, plus the XLR out is useful for going into a PA for bigger ones. Then I use the FR12 as my on stage monitor.

I miss the craziness of a valve amp, but the ability to just plug in, switch on, and play is great. Also my back prefers it. 

Beexter

Yep, use a Fender FR-10 for full band rehearsals and gigs. Love it. Lightweight, plenty loud enough and sounds good. Use it with either a Fractal FM9 or HX Stomp. Previously used a Yamaha DXR10 and have also used a Seymour Duncan PS170 with a variety of different guitar cabs.
The reason I prefer an FRFR solution is that I use a piezo equipped electric and a Boss SY-200 on a few songs in the set and these benefit massively from running through an FRFR.
The Fractal sounds great on core guitar tones so I get the familiarity of a traditional backline amp with greater flexibility.
The Fender is plenty loud enough on its own for pub gigs but I usually feed a bit of signal into the PA to help spread the sound a bit - the Fender does the heavy lifting though. Might be unconventional but it works for me.

monquixote

gearaddict said:

monquixote said:

My view is if you are using FRFR on stage it's just a random bit of PA that the sound engineer isn't in control of and why not put it through the main PA?

Coz then you can’t hear it, I guess. Unless you are using IEMs or just happy to hear yourself through foldback monitors.

You need monitoring to hear vocals etc so just use that.

Col_Decker

monquixote said:

gearaddict said:

monquixote said:

My view is if you are using FRFR on stage it's just a random bit of PA that the sound engineer isn't in control of and why not put it through the main PA?

Coz then you can’t hear it, I guess. Unless you are using IEMs or just happy to hear yourself through foldback monitors.

You need monitoring to hear vocals etc so just use that.

For me I want the FR12 on stage even when using PA and monitors as I like to stand close to it for getting feedback for intros and outros. 

We did try using IEMs and no back line on stage ... its not for me lads 

Roland

I use a Matrix Q12 for all occasions: home, rehearsals and gigs. At gigs I also put the guitar through the PA so that the levels can be balanced, and the overall volume kept under control.

The Q12 is plenty loud enough for a pub gig, and less directional than a guitar cab. Using the PA means that the guitar can be heard at the back of the room, and isn’t blocked by the first row of the audience. 

Yes, FRFR is not the same as a raw 2x12 or 4x12 cabinet because the spread is different, and it’s got the mic EQ baked in, but to my ears that’s not a bad thing. Like all guitarists I’m always wanting to improve my sound, so I read discussions about the FR10, FR12 etc, but so far nothing has persuaded me to make a change. I’m certainly not going back to valve amp and cabinet.

exocet

I use a Barefaced FRFR - mainly because it's open backed (albeit via a clever port design at rear). I prefer the "spread" that an open backed type cab gives - I can hear it clearly on stage.

bloodandtears

I'm the sole guitar player in a 3 piece...  

Guitar into Helix into Laney LFR-112.

In addition to this, I have a separate feed from the Helix to the PA for FOH sound spread and balance.

The backline is mainly for my benefit, I can control its volume without affect FOH, I can use it feedback and monitoring etc, it balances the on stage sound and appearance (bass player users an amp and cab)

I also use IEMs to hear vocals, click tracks and a personalised instrument mix,  although I only use one earpiece for this.. (it's also protection for the ear that faces the cymbals!!)

The Laney is great... 

I have tried it against the more expensive L6 Powercab and I stuck with the Laney... 

I have tried the Laney LFR-212 but it's too heavy for one person to lift after a gig imho.

I have tried the wedge style options in front of me eg Headrush, Alto etc, but I disliked the form factor in the context of my band; it made more sense to have it behind me and dedicated to guitar only.

I do intend to try the Fender FR-10 to see what it offers against the Laney, it is lighter for sure which is a bonus and the volume/eq controls are easily accessible, so maybe I will swap; but after 150 plus gigs with the Laney I'd need to be totally convinced on sound quality and reliability too.

NB: I have never been a fan of the traditional valve and pedals route.. I am a Line 6 fanboy and I much prefer to tap a button once than re-enact the Riverdance.

as always, try and find what's best for you.

gearaddict

bloodandtears said:

I'm the sole guitar player in a 3 piece...  

Guitar into Helix into Laney LFR-112.

In addition to this, I have a separate feed from the Helix to the PA for FOH sound spread and balance.

The backline is mainly for my benefit, I can control its volume without affect FOH, I can use it feedback and monitoring etc, it balances the on stage sound and appearance (bass player users an amp and cab)

I also use IEMs to hear vocals, click tracks and a personalised instrument mix,  although I only use one earpiece for this.. (it's also protection for the ear that faces the cymbals!!)

The Laney is great... 

I have tried it against the more expensive L6 Powercab and I stuck with the Laney... 

I have tried the Laney LFR-212 but it's too heavy for one person to lift after a gig imho.

I have tried the wedge style options in front of me eg Headrush, Alto etc, but I disliked the form factor in the context of my band; it made more sense to have it behind me and dedicated to guitar only.

I do intend to try the Fender FR-10 to see what it offers against the Laney, it is lighter for sure which is a bonus and the volume/eq controls are easily accessible, so maybe I will swap; but after 150 plus gigs with the Laney I'd need to be totally convinced on sound quality and reliability too.

NB: I have never been a fan of the traditional valve and pedals route.. I am a Line 6 fanboy and I much prefer to tap a button once than re-enact the Riverdance.

as always, try and find what's best for you.

Interesting, thanks - people (well, the internet) seem to be saying that the Fender FRs are the best sounding of these things atm but I'm not sure if that's coz they are the newest and shiniest and/or whether people just prefer the look/vibe of the Fender. I'm actually not that keen on the Fender vibe and I prefer the look of the Laney. People mention that the Laney is quite heavy as a negative but I saw a video where John Nathan Cordy gigged one of the Fenders and it was rotating around behind him due to the sound pressure! Maybe the extra weight of the Laney is no bad thing. 

I do actually have a Headrush FRFR108 which we have been using in the band as a general monitor. It never occurred to me to stick it behind me and use it as backline, but I see people above in this thread doing just that. So, that's something I should definitely try. I do feel there's something a bit odd about having a PA speaker on a pole behind me rather than a 'proper amp'. But I wouldn't want to drop £100s on a Laney LFR just for that reason alone. It would need to sound better. I'm struggling to find comparisons of these things online. There is this one:  (clips start at 1:55)

When I first listened to that my instinct was the Laney sounded 'bad'. Listening back though, with proper headphones, it's not so much that it's bad rather than it has a huge amount more mids, I think. Which, if other comparisons between real cabs and FRFRs are anything to go by, would suggest the Laney sounds more like a real cab. I could be wrong. One thing is for sure - they sound hugely different.

bloodandtears

gearaddict said:

People mention that the Laney is quite heavy as a negative but I saw a video where John Nathan Cordy gigged one of the Fenders and it was rotating around behind him due to the sound pressure! Maybe the extra weight of the Laney is no bad thing. 

@gearaddict do you have a link to this video please?

gearaddict

bloodandtears said:

gearaddict said:

People mention that the Laney is quite heavy as a negative but I saw a video where John Nathan Cordy gigged one of the Fenders and it was rotating around behind him due to the sound pressure! Maybe the extra weight of the Laney is no bad thing. 

@gearaddict do you have a link to this video please?

It's linked above isn't it? This should work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dhyDPzMLUI

Danny1969

You do actually need some weight if you want decent low end. The more rigid a speaker cabinet is and the more mass it has the tighter the low end is. 
This doesn't  matters quite so much in a guitar context with not much going on below 80Hz but make the active speaker too light and the whole thing will move because for every action there's a equal and opposite  action. The cone moving forward tries to push the cabinet backwards and so forth. Basically you want the cabinet immovable but that's not really practical. 

There's a certain sound I hear with some of the modern plastic housed tops like FBT and such. You can go too far making things too light in PA 

Voxman

gearaddict said:

Voxman said:

I gig with Headrush FRFR 108's. The most important thing is for audience facing to get FRFR's off the floor - I have mine on Tripods. Although I have two of these, because these are so loud I've never actually needed a second one although sometimes I'll use the second on the floor for foldback.  The Laney units are very good & have cabinet modelling but these are more expensive and heavier.  For my needs the 108's are really loud, sound good, and at only around 19lbs are easy to carry which at my age and with a bad back is a big factor.  I can carry a guitar in one hand, FRFR108 (in a Tote bag) in the other, with my mfx gig bag over my shoulder. 

Huh - sounds pretty good to me! So is the Headrush the only place you have guitar coming through? None in the main PA or other monitors? I can imagine my band complaining they can't hear the guitars, curmudgeonly lot that they are!

Thanks. Those vids were just through the Headrush. As mentioned I have an option to have one as a monitor for me and the band if needed.  And I could go through the PA too if needed.  I've even done larger gigs and festivals putting my MFX straight through the FOH PA and using a monitor on stage.  This was my Vox Tonelab SE straight through FOH.