I can feel the dark side calling. Help

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  • slackerslacker Frets: 2439
    Roland said:
    Then ask whether you could achieve the same result with a VP4.
    Then ask yourself if you could achieve the same result with your amp, guitar and fingers?

    I'm not an amp purist, I have 3 pedalboards and spares. Start with your amp at the volumes you use it. What's missing? The max you need is cleanish dirt volume boost and reverb. You can add after that but those are the core sounds and the simpler the better. 

    Yes a helix or digital or multi will do everything but can you adjust it on the fly? I have a gigrig mki I don't use much. Try digital or multi and make sure you can return it if it's not working in a band situation. Do you sing as well cos that's really going to mess with your tap dancing.  

    Any changes should make life easier. 
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  • topdog91topdog91 Frets: 944
    Thank you everyone, very useful and encouraging. I do have a Brian Moore with piezo that would be interesting through the parallel paths, but indeed generally, currently I don't see any need at all.

    I guess once one has more available options, one may be drawn towards them, but for me parallel paths seems like a future thing if at all.

    Another question for the Helix crew - I have read a bit about this but interested to see how you approach it - how do you handle being able to go ampless sometimes and use an amp other times (Helix just for effects)? Would you duplicate presets or use snapshots in existing presets to turn off the amp and cab?

    I know there's the third option of using the Helix preamps but am trying to keep the question simple. Although I think in this case I could run a split at the end of my preset and have the 1/4" jack to the amp with no cab sim and the XLR to the PA with cab sim? Then the same preset would work for both.

    Or perhaps I could do the above with the amp and cab blocks in the split? But then what about effect after the amp or cab? Does one even put effects after the amp and cab? In a pedalboard and real amp scenario, one doesn't, but this is all different.

    Head already exploding but still not put off!
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  • borntohangborntohang Frets: 351
    edited January 4
    My gigs are either amp OR direct and never the twain shall meet so it's not really an issue, but I do have a basic amp setting saved in a few of my 'board' patches which I can use for headphone tweaking or going direct in an emergency. That keeps all my tweaks on one patch and then I just leave the amp block toggled off.

    For post-amp effects I would run anything stereo, which isn't much. Delay if it's a dirty amp sound, ambient reverbs if I'm trying to soften the dry cab feel. I think with the extra DSP on Helix Proper you could actually just double any post-amp effects you wanted to hit both outputs and then adjust them for amp sim and real amp accordingly. 

    I'll admit I do have an slight fascination with trying to squeeze every bit of functionality out of a single patch when my issue could be solved by just going to a patch per song model. I like the challenge though. 
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  • vasselmeyervasselmeyer Frets: 3724
    On the amp/digital switch, depending on the stage I can use both an amp, FoH or both. I use a BOSS GT-1000 rather than a Helix, but the principle is the same. Just before hitting the amp-cab-mic block, I split off the signal and send it to one of the jack outputs so it has the same FX, just without the other stuff. I can then take that jack into the FX return of a power amp. That way I can use exactly the same patches for FoH or stage amp. I can even use both at the same time, so I could get a consistent XLR for FoH and then use my amp for onstage monitoring or if I want my trousers to flap.

    It would be exactly the same principle for virtually all modellers.
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  • topdog91topdog91 Frets: 944
    Thanks people; for the avoidance of doubt, I was talking about being amp-y and ampless at different gigs. Sounds like it's really not a big deal to go from one to the other for the most part.
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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 8550
    topdog91 said:
    Thanks people; for the avoidance of doubt, I was talking about being amp-y and ampless at different gigs. Sounds like it's really not a big deal to go from one to the other for the most part.
    Yes whatever way you choose it’ll be simple - be that cloned and edited patch, snapshot (I’d be wary of that one - I’d feel one wayward foot stomp away from odd sounds!) , or simply one patch and turning on/off blocks at setup. 

    Re the paths thing - I had a Helix for a few years and IMO unless you’ve got a specific reason in mind to do a different clever thing, always start from a patch that has both paths in series and all the DSP available. Saves faff. 

    I did also have a patch that ran parallel paths so me and the bass player could use my rig at rehearsal if needed - just kept both chains basic. 

    Enjoy the rabbit hole! 
    Red ones are better. 
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  • jackiojackio Frets: 234

    Thanks, I'm happy again! Forgive me for not reading the manual because I haven't bought one yet. Don't forgive the "assistant" for not knowing the answers to any of my questions nor that the DSP was per-path.

    Time to learn about when I would actually want a parallel path as it's not something that's ever occurred to me before.
    You don’t need it to be a parallel path, you can just link them into one long chain. Like a big pedal board all connected in series with double the dsp. 

    So perfectly possible to have lots and lots of pedals though some do need more dsp than others. Amps use a fair bit but not many need to have several amps in a single patch
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  • topdog91topdog91 Frets: 944
    jackio said:

    Thanks, I'm happy again! Forgive me for not reading the manual because I haven't bought one yet. Don't forgive the "assistant" for not knowing the answers to any of my questions nor that the DSP was per-path.

    Time to learn about when I would actually want a parallel path as it's not something that's ever occurred to me before.
    You don’t need it to be a parallel path, you can just link them into one long chain. Like a big pedal board all connected in series with double the dsp. 

    So perfectly possible to have lots and lots of pedals though some do need more dsp than others. Amps use a fair bit but not many need to have several amps in a single patch
    I know, sorry if I wasn't clear. The long chain will presumably be my go-to at first, but I will *also* want to learn about the use cases for a parallel path. :)
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  • MusicwolfMusicwolf Frets: 4033
    One way in which I like to use parallel paths is to set one path up as my 'rhythm' chain and the other as my 'lead'.  I then put a vol block into both paths and set this to be controlled by the expression pedal, but working in opposite directions of travel.  Toe-up = Rhythm Path, toe-down = Lead (or you can just place the vol block in the lead path so that it comes in on top of the rhythm).

    Very useful if you are also doing vocals, or just to maintain eye contact with the audience, to be able to hit a nice big pedal to change sounds.

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  • topdog91topdog91 Frets: 944
    Musicwolf said:
    One way in which I like to use parallel paths is to set one path up as my 'rhythm' chain and the other as my 'lead'.  I then put a vol block into both paths and set this to be controlled by the expression pedal, but working in opposite directions of travel.  Toe-up = Rhythm Path, toe-down = Lead (or you can just place the vol block in the lead path so that it comes in on top of the rhythm).

    Very useful if you are also doing vocals, or just to maintain eye contact with the audience, to be able to hit a nice big pedal to change sounds.

    The thing for me is that "rhythm" and "lead" vary from song to song and sometimes I wing it based on feel e.g. for a "soaring" solo on a given song I might activate the high gain drive or low and mid gain together. So I'd like to retain that stompbox feel by and large and have specific presets for certain specific song which either require complex tap dancing or special sounds. Interesting approach though.
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  • grungebobgrungebob Frets: 3695
    When did making music get so complicated?
    im guilty of it too but flipping eck what’s happened?
    I used to do whole gigs with one guitar and amp plus two pedals and one of them was a tuner. 
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  • topdog91topdog91 Frets: 944
    grungebob said:
    When did making music get so complicated?
    im guilty of it too but flipping eck what’s happened?
    I used to do whole gigs with one guitar and amp plus two pedals and one of them was a tuner. 
    It didn't.
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  • onlyatomonlyatom Frets: 56
    I'm happy to map out a path on my Helix if you gave a list and path of all the devices you think you'd need?

    You'll then know if the DSP can provide all your options.
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  • topdog91topdog91 Frets: 944
    onlyatom said:
    I'm happy to map out a path on my Helix if you gave a list and path of all the devices you think you'd need?

    You'll then know if the DSP can provide all your options.
    I really appreciated that, thank you. I've agreed a deal which will hopefully be closing on Sunday so I'll be able to fudge around. It will be interesting to see how I get on with the drives in the box or if I feel I have to complicate my life (having attempted to simplify it by getting the Helix) by putting my current drive pedals in effects loops.
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