Martin Truss Rod DISAPPEARED!

Littlejonny

I'm pretty sure the truss rod adjuster socket on my Martin 000X1 has come out somehow, and is nowhere to be seen! There is just a wooden hole with a load of space behind it (when looking into it with a light). It's a body-end truss rod adjuster. If it had fallen into the neck, then wouldn't it be rattling around? It's certainly not fallen into the guitar. I know you need a long allen key to get to it, but I've tried the usual one and it's not reaching anything. Obvs the guitar needs an adjustment, hence why I've noticed it...

I think the guitar might be finally dead!

drofluf

Yes, sounds like a write off. If you bring it to me I’ll dispose of it for a small fee

Seriously have you adjusted the truss rod before? Sometimes the adjuster is hard to find and if your Allen key is too small it will rotate in the socket and it will feel like nothing is there. 

But I doubt you’ve lost anything 

BillDL

I've seen a few questions on other forums where owners have suspected that there was either no truss rod on their X series Martin, or that the barrel with the hex socket had fallen out.  The answer is that it is very deeply set into the neck / heel and needs the long allen key tool to reach it.

Often in that barrel there is a larger circular recess before you reach the hex-shaped hole, and sometimes the ball end of a long allen wrench helps to feed the tool into the actual hex socket rather than trying to fumble around feeling for it with the flat end.  Did you receive one of the proper allen key tools with the guitar?

drofluf

Think you need the 5mm version of this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/404539409340?

Unfortunately the battery in my micrometer has failed so I can't check mine to be 100% certain

Littlejonny

Phew - this is reassuring! I remember I had to buy a special one...very long and with a ball end I think - I have one here that is long but may be too thin. I will try and find the Martin one, and order one if necessary...

drofluf

Littlejonny said:

Phew - this is reassuring! I remember I had to buy a special one...very long and with a ball end I think - I have one here that is long but may be too thin. I will try and find the Martin one, and order one if necessary...

Please don’t take my word that it’s 5mm before you buy one. 

ICBM

The rod adjuster on these is so far in that you think you've gone halfway up the neck by the time the Allen key finally engages with it.

The size is 5mm. I've read somewhere that they used 4mm on some models, but I've never come across one.

Littlejonny

Thanks so much guys

DavidR

Unsurprisingly, buying the specific Martin truss rod tool with a nice chunky handle makes adjusting the truss rod on a Martin much easier. Music Nomad make a good one

£18.80 on Amazon.uk. 

Tannin

^ A wiz for @DavidR - for a few quid, having the correct designed-for-purpose tool beats mucking about with improvised make-dos every time. A few years ago for $20 I bought a Maton truss rod tool. People often say the Maton rod is hard to reach. Nope: with the correct tool it's breeze and I don't even need to loosen the strings off. 

One of these days I must remember to do something similar for my various and assorted other guitars. 

(A small irony: not long after spending the $20 I bought a Custom Shop Maton guitar and, being a posh model, it came with a free truss rod tool. So now I have two.)

Littlejonny

I do own the Martin truss rod tool, but can't find it!

I took the guitar into PMT and they had one there, but it took a lot of turning before it gave even a slight relief. The guy there pointed out that the top has sunk, which I think it has.

Never buy an X series Martin. It sounds gorgeous, but is not built to last IMO. I dropped it a couple of times and the back split open and that stuff  never wanted to go back to the original shape (it sort of pops back into a flat sheet) and it's not actually possible to repair it properly. Now this.

I'm looking into a new guitar now - my friend is lending me his Taylor 310 for a while and I'm considering a Guild D-140 or a Yamaha LL6. I'm more into the idea of a big guitar now anyway.

Vinny

Good shout on Guild and Yamaha. The Guild would be all solid but you’d have to go to LL16 for all solid Yamaha. If you can find one, the original Guild GAD40 were slightly better spec, wood binding, better tuners, bone nut, etc.

Vinny

ThVinny said:

Good shout on Guild and Yamaha. The Guild would be all solid but you’d have to go to LL16 for all solid Yamaha. If you can find one, the original Guild GAD40 were slightly better spec, wood binding, better tuners, bone nut, etc.

The newer (2 prefix eg. 240 instead of 140) Guilds, Memoir designation, I think, have laminated back and sides. 

The early GAD models had only two digits, tweed case, later ones three digits, hard case, then Westerly name appeared with three digits, and foam case.

BillDL

Are any of those going to withstand being dropped a couple of times any more than the Martin X Series?

@Littlejohnny - Where has the soundboard sunk?  Behind the bridge, in front of it, or between the soundhole and the fretboard extension?

An acoustic guitar relies on the integrity of the back and sides as well as the soundboard and the internal bracing, but if the back has been split open where it won't knit and glue together properly it could have reduced the overall strength of the whole box structure and allowed the soundboard to start collapsing in certain places.  Perhaps not Martin's fault and perhaps not really a valid "Never buy one of these" warnings.  A high pressure laminate (or HPF as referred to by Martin that obviously are too embarrassed to say "laminate") does delaminate and splinter in sheets when bashed, but it is usually a good bit harder to damage than a thin solid wood back and sides, so I can only assume it had a couple of very hard bangs.

MartinB

I've seen a couple of friends Martin X series guitars fracture badly when knocked, the kind of bump that would probably be just a nasty ding on wood guitars, or at worst a clean, repairable crack. It's a shame, as the spruce topped examples I've heard can sound quite good.

And regarding the 6 and 16 series Yamahas, I tried an LJ6 and LJ16 next to each other in the same shop and couldn't hear a lot of difference between them, which makes the 6 feel like good value.

Littlejonny

I'm happy with laminate B&S if the guitar is really well made/voiced. The 000X1 does indeed sound very good (guitarist friends often comment how nice it sounds) and may be a particularly good sounding one, as it was the end of a long hunt for a good mid priced acoustic back in 2007.

The damage - one incident was when it was in a padded soft case and fell from the boot of my car onto the concrete ground. So not very far but I think landed on the edge where it's weakest. I can't actually remember the 2nd one, but I'm pretty sure it fell off a strap onto a hard(ish) floor. From the repair I'm pretty convinced it's not as easy as to work with as proper wood.

@BillDL I believe it has sunk between the soundhole and the fretboard extension...I'm not sure but there are definitely some odd things going on with it.

Since yesterday, all our messing with the truss rod has taken effect, and now the action is very high. I've ordered the tool so I can get it to a happy medium.

Also, a few years ago, I lent it to a friend for a year and at some point he wanted to lower the action further than it would go (having flattened the neck out) so he sanded the bridge down significantly...yes, I know! Since then, I had a tech deepen the saddle slot a bit so that I could install a Headway under saddle piezo...so the geometry of this guitar is confusing to say the least!

Thanks for the info on the Guilds and Yammys. I've played on LL16s but not an LL6. Never played on a Guild dread, but one's come up locally if only the FaceBook seller would answer her messages!

tom54321

I had one of the cheaper Martin guitars some years ago, think it was £500. It had no lacquer on it I assumme to reduce costs. I banged into once with an Epiphone Les Paul, not that hard but one side of the top completely split.