Tool's cover of 'No Quarter' ...

Danny1969

The thing about drums is you have to play the whole kit as a single instrument and balance yourself, yes you can close mic and add samples but if you want a natural drum sound that actually sounds like a real kit it's all down to how it's played.  Perfect example here, Bonzos isolated drums from Fool in the rain. You can hear it's pretty much all room mics and overs, compressed. Now with most drummers that would sound a mess of all hat and cymbals but he balances it himself and he's groove is just addictive 

When people refer to Page being sloppy I think they are referring to his live work and a lot of it was sloppy. He was addicted to heroine and completely off his trolley at some gigs. Still a genius player in the studio and a brilliant song writer overall but like a lot of people prone to over doing the stimulants when playing live. 

Clarky

being a little sloppy at gigs ain't so bad... you're up there putting on a show.. not stood still / sat there looking at the neck..

and yeah, when you listen to arecording of the gig you can think 'jeez.. rough playing'.. but.. there's a major difference between hearing a recording of a gig, and being in the same room with the band when it's being played.. the gig's "vibe' often never makes it to tape..

Snap

that drumming is just so good. Love it.

ftumch

Slightly off topic I know but ive never really been someone who takes that much notice of the drummist except for the odd song that stands out. But I saw sabbath at Hyde park earlier in the year (the gig was virtually free thanks to you guys here pointing out the staff discounted tickets btw, thanks ) but Tommy clufetos was really fckn good, about the only time I haven't completely switched off during a drum solo.

Bucket

I really like A Perfect Circle's re-imagining (pun very much intended) of "Imagine". Doesn't sound like the original at all, but it's cool.

equalsql

Drew_fx said:

... is better than the Led Zeppelin original.

)

PolarityMan

Bucket;416841" said:

I really like A Perfect Circle's re-imagining (pun very much intended) of "Imagine". Doesn't sound like the original at all, but it's cool.

I like to pretend that never happened

johnnyurq

The original for me, I don't mind Tool and it isn't a bad version, but.

Not a massive Zep fan BTW but the original version has a better vibe for my tastes.

Bucket

PolarityMan said:

I like to pretend that never happened

That album seems to get a lot of stick, but I really like a lot of it.

chillidoggy

I wouldn't have said Bonzo was sloppy, but the band in general was. Page's playing was definitely had a sloppy edge, but nevertheless they got away with it beautifully, didn't they?

randomhandclaps

Drew_fx said:

AFAIK, Danny Carey never records to a click. You can hear it in their music - they really are a *live* band. 

He doesn't.  He also doesn't slag of new Pink Floyd albums for a bit of free publicity which makes him a pretty cool guy.

Recording-wise I do prefer Led Zep's version slightly better but if you asked me to pick one of them to play it live it would definitely be Tool as their drummer isn't dead and I really like the drum parts. 

Evilmags

The No Quarter on the song remains the same is awesome. Much nicer than Tool's version.

Clarky

chillidoggy said:

I wouldn't have said Bonzo was sloppy, but the band in general was. Page's playing was definitely had a sloppy edge, but nevertheless they got away with it beautifully, didn't they?

Zep had this kinda 'lazy' vibe.. not so loose as to be wrong.. but loose enough to be cool..

PolarityMan

Just listened to this version:

There's loads of mistakes in the drum part, the pacing doesn't work that well, the distorted guitar tone is horrific and for some reason comes in abruptly panned hard left so instead of getting a whole band dynamic shift it just sounds like some guy with a distorted guitar noodling over the track. The vocals are out of tune, particularly at the end. 

Tbh it's amazing  that the guys in tool managed to see so much potential in the song...but give led zep their due there are some quality parts in there, just executed poorly and they did nail the mystical mood.

I just reckon today the bar is set a fair bit higher for performance, especially in the studio. 

Drew_TNBD

Jesus.. that version is pretty awful.

Reverend

Crowbar's version is best.

I can't stand Houses of the Holy.

PolarityMan

Reverend said:

Crowbar's version is best.

Listening now...sooooo chunky

thisisguitar

@Bucket - It's the video to the track that makes it, they couldn't get it on tv.

thisisguitar

Which is amazing as all they did really was comp actual news footage!

monquixote

PolarityMan said:

I didn't mention a click and as Drew points out Tool don't use one. Led Zep were sloppy as all fuck even on a good day though. 

It's not about if he uses a click or not it's more about the natural assumption of 99% of modern rock drummers that the pulse of the music should be defined on the click of a metronome and that can be explicit or just internalised into their playing. 

A lot of the drummers from that 60's era come from a jazz background where the pulse isn't so regimented. Everything Bonham plays tends to be slightly swung and he moves around the beat as he plays. I don't think Bonham can be called "sloppy" as I think everything he does is intended and there for a reason. Bill Ward is the same. Reading Iommi's book he says hardly any modern drummers can play with Sabbath because they don't get it. 

Also regarding the track and relative sloppyness. It's going to have been recorded in a couple of takes with very few edits and overdubs probably the day or day after it was written. It's about vibe rather than perfection. I expect if modern bands had to record the way 60's bands did then they would sound similarly sloppy.

I was reading about a similar thing in the world of classical recently where they tend to Pro Tools the shit out of orchestras removing all the character and the ebb and flow of the conductors timing and piecing together flawless takes. I was interested to know it's much the same debate as in the world of rock music.

None of this changes the awesomeness of Tool.