NGD: Arbiter LP custom tree of life, set neck. Learning how to fettle it but what pickups are these?

MikeC

OK, so always missed the Arbiter guitars I had as a teenager (a junior and a 3 pickup SG) so I saw a dark brown set neck 'tree of life' Arbiter LP custom on ebay last week and pulled the trigger at £370, including a stagg hiscox style hard case. Slightly more than I wanted to pay given the poor photos / description and various dents etc. 

Think it was either made in the Kasuga factory, or even was one Ivor Arbiter put together to take the brand up market. Suspect it is mid 70's?  

I've enjoyed learning how to set up a guitar, including intonation and neck relief, so now it plays well. Quite a few knocks, and someone routed around the pickups a little bit too enthusiastically. Back of one tuner peg missing (and doesn't look like the usual ibanez star tuners I've seen, so might be hard to find a spare), 2 strange toggle switches added that seem to do little - might be out of phase switches? Tuners might be slightly later 1980's smooth tuners? 

 Next to think about are the pickups - they don't look original? Anyone have any idea what they are? They sound pretty good. Plus I'd like to learn how to solder and maybe this is where to start.  Might look to find some of those magnaflux ones that they had in the day that Ive had on a few MIJ guitars....

https://i.imgur.com/ZQV5KKg.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/A0RSIo3.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/OKAzhMs.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/DZ3BvYa.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/1KZwqgT.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/wHKfv97.jpeg

Neck pickup - any ideas what it is?

 https://i.imgur.com/gVUKBhQ.jpeg

Philly_Q

Interesting purchase!  My first guitar was also an Arbiter LP copy - or sold as such, there was no name at all on the headstock.  It was the standard bolt-on type that was common in the '70s and early '80s, with those weird not-really-humbuckers.

Unlike you, I've never missed it at all.

MikeC

Yes, there was quite a range of quality coming out of Japan in the 70’s under even the same brand names. Those pickups you refer to looked like humbuckers but I think were weak single coils underneath. 

guitars4you

Jedson, CMI, CSL, Avon , Eros , Kimbara, Kasuga, Grant, Antoria, Arbiter, Satelite, etc etc

Many from the Matsumoko factory - Owned by Singer the sewing machine company 

impmann

Probably not original pickups - they look remarkably like the sort of thing fitted to modern PRS/ESP guitars, made by G&B pickups in Korea. The embossed "N" for neck is one of their 'things'.

Whilst much is made of the original pickups, there is a reason we all ditched them back in the day in favour of diMarzios etc. Frankly, I can think of a gazillion other pickups I'd rather fit to that than the original ones. They really weren't that good, despite the BS on certain forums about them.

Looks like a nice guitar - I used to have an Arbiter LP Jnr and once I'd changed out the pickup for a proper P90 it roared like a bastard. 

OilCityPickups

Pickups are probably Korean ... and I must say ... I'd either pop some covers on those or get some pickups with cream  bobbins and go the 80s DiMarzio-esque route ... plain black looks a bit meh on a tree of life guitar. 

Really nice guitar though ... I'm a little jealous 

HarrySeven

Ah, I’ve had a few of these…nice guitars!

Offset

guitars4you said:

Jedson, CMI, CSL, Avon , Eros , Kimbara, Kasuga, Grant, Antoria, Arbiter, Satelite, etc etc

Many from the Matsumoko factory - Owned by Singer the sewing machine company 

My first guitar was a Jedson, but now you've told me that I feel I was stiched up.

MikeC

Thanks all! Really appreciated. 

As far as cheap mij guitars go it’s actually playing ok. 

Ok, soldering iron ordered and will start the search for some cheapish but half decent cream pickups and scratch plate…

MikeC

Re singer machines, these comments are hemming me in too much! 

MikeC

Or am I loosing the thread on this one? 

borntohang

I've seen those under Kasuga before. Set neck so nicer than the usual junk if not as nice as the later stuff. Good price for it too - I'm usually not a fan of the big inlays but the vine has got it's own vibe in an LP Artisan way. Let me know if you get bored of it!

MikeC

Ok, decided to go vintage white but cheap pickups, so these just arrived from ebay - the magnaflux ones. Rated at about 7.5k each, so not that hot. I think £120 all in is an ok price for these? A set of vintage 80's cream dimarzios looked to be about £200, same price as second hand modern PAF replicas that I think would sound much better.

Might take cover off the neck one.

Indents on back of both say Maxon and stamped 13004. I've had these pickups before in an Ibanez flying V and they were rough but enjoyable. Now need to learn how to solder!

I've lent the guitar to someone for a while, so will post results once it comes back. 

https://i.imgur.com/OSKiM6a.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/KyTdaPA.jpeg

Philly_Q

I've always thought those pickups look cool with the square poles and toaster covers.  I remember seeing a Jedson with those pickups in a junk shop when I was a student (back in the days when there were still junk shops with cheap guitars).  I didn't buy it, but I was tempted.

Keiko

I used to have one of those in original condition. Nice guitars. They are in the 1976 Kasuga catalogue. Unfortunately this is the only website I can find with pics of it, and it wants you to log in

http://www.vintaxe.com/catalogs_pages/catalogs_japanese_kasuga_1976.php

MikeC

Yup, that’s the one. 

OilCityPickups

MikeC said:

Ok, decided to go vintage white but cheap pickups, so these just arrived from ebay - the magnaflux ones. Rated at about 7.5k each, so not that hot. I think £120 all in is an ok price for these? A set of vintage 80's cream dimarzios looked to be about £200, same price as second hand modern PAF replicas that I think would sound much better.

Might take cover off the neck one.

Indents on back of both say Maxon and stamped 13004. I've had these pickups before in an Ibanez flying V and they were rough but enjoyable. Now need to learn how to solder!

I've lent the guitar to someone for a while, so will post results once it comes back. 

https://i.imgur.com/OSKiM6a.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/KyTdaPA.jpeg

I've rewound a few of these - they are okay - but in my experience - bettered in sound and build quality by even cheap modern humbuckers like Iron Gear Blues Engines. If originality is everything mind ... they are OK. 

ICBM

I once put a pair of the ‘square pole toasters’ into an old Höfner President I’d acquired in terrible condition but fitted with a pair of DiMarzios - the pickups were worth more than the guitar back then.

It’s how I recognised it when I saw it nearly 30 years later, even though the next owner had very creatively painted the whole thing. It sounded great when his son used it at a gig - I saw it and immediately knew it was the same guitar.

OilCityPickups

ICBM said:

I once put a pair of the ‘square pole toasters’ into an old Höfner President I’d acquired in terrible condition but fitted with a pair of DiMarzios - the pickups were worth more than the guitar back then.

It’s how I recognised it when I saw it nearly 30 years later, even though the next owner had very creatively painted the whole thing. It sounded great when his son used it at a gig - I saw it and immediately knew it was the same guitar.

As I say they are OK - they sound like a version of a T-Top which is not surprising because that's the winding level with poly coated wire, matched coils etc is ripped off from the Gibson T-Top iteration current when these guitars were made. I suppose if you want the sound of a 70s Gibson low output pickup then they do the job. Not in my mind worth the price premium on anything old and Maxon. 

MikeC

OK, I'm still learning how to do things, but so far on the Arbiter I've done some basic stuff with the help of a few books and You Tube videos. I constructed a crude workbench from some plywood which I covered in one of the the blankets you use for removals and used my sit / stand desk to get it to the right height. Then I bought some tools (soldering iron, fret stuff etc).

Stuff attempted so far on top of cleaning / changing strings / tightening things / getting rid of rust (never gone further than this before):

- a basic set up - tweaked the truss rod, tweaked the intonation (string height and length)
- taken off the replacement pickups and soldered in the vintage Maxon magnaflux pickups, adjusted the pickup height
- sanded the frets, stoned, crowned and polished them, lightly sanded (0000 gauge) and oiled the fretboard 

It sounds pretty good, but it's a shame that the nut is only a shade over 40mm as opposed to the vintage 43mm. Plus playing a tree of life inlay fretboard can be a little bit confusing in terms of knowing where you are! My brain gets confused!

There are some tiny wood gaps by the pickups (someone must have widened the area a bit) that might be next on the list to fix, plus maybe a touch up if I can find the very dark wine red paint easily. That's probably as far as I will get - a complete re-fret is a bit beyond my skill set!

The thing that took the most time (or was the least enjoyable) was covering the fretboard with low adhesive masking tape prior to having a go at the frets. Maybe someone has already invented some pre cut masking tape that just fits on top of a Gibson scale fretboard and just lets the frets be visible / workable? 

Not sure it needs a new nut, but that might also be something to learn that might be do-able.

I then did the same sort of jobs to one of my guitars and two of a friend's - and was a lot quicker, especially with a friend's telecaster - so much easier when you remove the neck! 

I'll do some more tweaking next weekend once its settled a bit. 

 https://imgur.com/a/n9osTmk.jpeg

https://imgur.com/a/n9osTmk.jpg
 

MikeC

Finished tweaking as best I can. Nut is 42mm and works fine, frets all nicely stoned and crowned, Maxon pickups sound great and bought a gold Vanson roller bridge to replace the knackered one.

But the Vanson bridge inserts were ever so slightly too small for the posts there, and the Vanson posts were slightly too big for the holes, so I followed some you tube advice and wrapped newspaper around the Vanson bolts plus a bit of wood glue and it now fits very snug. 

Set up per my Fritz ruler as just between low action and high action - feels just right to me.

Really enjoyed doing this. Will probably sell it now and find another project.