Question about CAGED and the Major Pentatonic

stratman3142

viz said:

THEN realise that ALL the modes are related. C major. D dorian. E phrygian. F lydian. G Mixolydian. A aeolian. B locrian. 

Straying way off topic now, but another preference I have is to think in terms of interval formulas rather than related scales.

So, for example, I know that the D Dorian mode is like playing a C major scale but referenced to a D root note. But I'd prefer to think of it as playing a D minor pentatonic, but adding the 2 and the 6.

viz

^ yup exactly. 

All minor modes are made by tweaking the 2 and 6 absent from the minor penta. 

All major modes are made by tweaking the 4 and 7 absent from the major penta. 

topdog91

viz said:

I think the first thing to do is recognise C major penta as being 123568 (CDEGAC) and C minor penta as being 1 b3 4 5 b7 8 (C Eb F G Bb C). 

Get used to those musical sounds and play songs and noodles in them. 

THEN realise that C major is the relative of A minor. Both scales use the same notes on a piano - all the white notes. And C major penta has the same notes as A minor penta.

THEN realise that ALL the modes are related. C major. D dorian. E phrygian. F lydian. G Mixolydian. A aeolian. B locrian. 

Musically I think it's more useful to recognize the relations between modes in the same key. e.g. C Ionian, C Dorian, C Phrygian etc.

e.g. If you're jamming in C, it's a more logical musical to be able to play in e.g. C Mixolydian by thinking it's the same as C Ionian with a lowered seventh, rather than going um, Mixolyidan is the fifth mode, in which scale is C the fifth note, I'll just work backwards, ah, it's F, okay I'll just play F major, hmm why does it sound a bit strange as I play patterns and emphasize the F rather than the C root.

Ultimately knowledge of scales and modes leads to a knowledge of intervals which IMO is much more useful as we lurch from one note to the next.

viz

Yep that’s exactly what I mean.isten to C major amd C minor. And C Dorian etc.

And only then notice that they’re modes. 

stratman3142

Greenman13 said:

I'm curious to understand how everyone else learnt how to make music with CAGED and the best ways of practicing it. 

I've got a bee in my bonnet about this topic now

This is just echoing some of the comments that have already been made.

I didn't learn how to make music with CAGED. In the early days I copied loads of blues/rock solos. In particular I was pretty obsessed with Lesley West and Paul Kossoff. I think I probably learned most of the riffs and licks from the live side of Flowers Of Evil (Mountain), and also the Free Live album.

I started to see recurring note patterns emerging and would invent my own names for the types of sound that certain groups of notes (patterns) created. When I eventually heard terms such as pentatonic, modes, CAGED etc, I decided to adopt those names as they were a common language for music theory. But I was playing loads of stuff years before I knew what it was called officially.

I only realised later that Lesley West and Paul Kossoff were often using notes based on, what would be called, major and minor pentatonics. I'd recommend listening to players like that (especially Lesley West live clips) to hear the contrasting sounds of the major and minor pentatonics and how to use them. I wonder whether those players called them major and minor pentatonics. I doubt they would have been familiar with terms such as CAGED.

It's great that there's so much information available now, but I wonder whether it leads to a 'cart before the horse' situation. Like most players (I expect), I've been more 'ear led' than 'theory led'. Even though I love theory.

I remember when I first heard Robben Ford inject some jazzy lines into the blues, I wondered what the hell is that! Which then caused me to seek out and discover the half step, whole step scale. It's the desire to create a certain type of sound that leads things.

GuyBoden

For more spice, add a few more notes to each CAGED pattern.

Example: Major Key Pitch Collection and resolution notes shown below:

guitarjack66

Litterick said:

TimmyO said:

Litterick said:

TimmyO said:

Litterick said:

 I would like to know what those who play CAGED exclusively understand. 

I think you’re imagining that that’s a group that exists, but I don’t think it does.

Using the driving GPS analogy, it’s like assuming there are people who only drive GPS, and wondering if they can find their way anywhere if it was switched off. 

The act of driving around following GPS also entails being immersed in a 3D world and (without deliberately trying to) also internalising that some roads go in certain directions or connect to other places. 

It’s the same playing an instrument and hearing music. 

Regardless of any conscious route to understanding or navigating you might take, it’s all but impossible to not also develop a less conscious grasp of playing. imo.

The GPS analogy is not helpful, because GPS is a guide, while CAGED is a method. I think it quite possible that musicians who use a particular method might be unaware of other methods, or other ways of approaching music.

I think that you think about this so differently to me that it might be hard to discuss it. As it goes, I think you might be thinking about it quite differently than most other people too. 

Thank you. I like to think about things differently to other people.

I tend to think about music and theory different to the average Joe but the relative major and minor way is as straightforward as it gets for Pentatonics and the Caged system is simply a way( in its most basic form,it has others) of playing the same chords in different places using familiar shapes. 
Sometimes we may have to change our own thinking to see the concept. As a simple 'for example' I started using barre chords quite quickly,even before some basic chord shapes,then I realised that almost all were the longer form of the many shapes I already knew and used. 

stratman3142

Someone has just posted a view of a CAGED based approach that essentially aligns with the way I think about things. 

So I'm not alone

I use the term 'CAGED based approach' to avoid getting into what the 'CAGED system' is or isn't, and to avoid a narrow and contrained view of things.