PA Speaker advice

uncledick

Currently using 2 x Yamaha DXR10s and a DXS12 sub if the venue is big enough.  We typically play small pubs and the odd village hall type venue.  We rented a rehearsal room yesterday and - using our own mics and a similar mixer - the main PA was a pair of EV ZLX-12Ps.  Have to say I was very impressed with the sound.  Seemed more 'analogue' and less harsh, but still retained clarity.  Had a look on FB Marketplace , as you do, and found that these can be bought for well under a grand a pair.
Anyone care to share any thoughts on this?  Is it the speaker size or is it a better quality pice of kit?  The Yamahas have a good reputation and fetch good money.  How would a pair of DXR12s compare?
When others ask this question online, there is a lot of love for Mackie, RCF and QSC - with the expected higher price point!

Any thoughts welcome.  FWIW we have 3 vocal mics, 2 guitars using line out from their amps and kick drum for larger venues.

TIA

Danny1969

I've supplied them as monitors but I wouldn't want to use them as mains. They are only around 400 watts of low driver and 100 watts or so for the horn. Nothing like the 1000 watts EV claim. Internally they aren't really built for punishment, some questionable design choices IMHO. 

They do sound good though at lowish levels. However 2nd hand would be a bit of a gamble as you won't know how many hours they have done. All of them tend to go wrong being class D with SMPS's  ... sometimes within a few years. 

QSC K series are quite hardy and can put in a shift of 50 gigs a year for 10 years in my experience. Early Mackies like the SRM450 mark 1's are capable of 20 years or more of trouble free operation, being linear powered and amplified. The M2 and M3's are all class D and SMPS and nowhere near as hardy though. RCF make some nice stuff but it's always a bit on the edge performance wise for me. 

Just be careful buying 2nd hand it's very common for one speaker to go bad and the owner gets that one fixed and then sells the pair before the other one goes faulty. Which it will because it's made in exactly the same way from exactly the same parts. These designs have a life of 5 to 12 years working 7 hours a week in my experience repairing them.

uncledick

Danny1969 said:

I've supplied them as monitors but I wouldn't want to use them as mains. They are only around 400 watts of low driver and 100 watts or so for the horn. Nothing like the 1000 watts EV claim. Internally they aren't really built for punishment, some questionable design choices IMHO. 

They do sound good though at lowish levels. However 2nd hand would be a bit of a gamble as you won't know how many hours they have done. All of them tend to go wrong being class D with SMPS's  ... sometimes within a few years. 

QSC K series are quite hardy and can put in a shift of 50 gigs a year for 10 years in my experience. Early Mackies like the SRM450 mark 1's are capable of 20 years or more of trouble free operation, being linear powered and amplified. The M2 and M3's are all class D and SMPS and nowhere near as hardy though. RCF make some nice stuff but it's always a bit on the edge performance wise for me. 

Just be careful buying 2nd hand it's very common for one speaker to go bad and the owner gets that one fixed and then sells the pair before the other one goes faulty. Which it will because it's made in exactly the same way from exactly the same parts. These designs have a life of 5 to 12 years working 7 hours a week in my experience repairing them.

Interesting insight @Danny1969 - thanks.  Do you think we would notice much difference if we just went to the DXR12s rather than the 10s?  They - particularly the Mk2 - are still fetching strong money.

shufflebeat

Depends on your lineup to some extent. 10” drivers are quite good for vocal reproduction.

I have some dxr8’s that I put over EV 12” subs (elx200-sp) and they’re a great combination for folk/country with drums for about 150 people in a sympathetic space. My dxr12’s on their own might struggle to fill the space but without drums I’d be happy to do quite complex acoustic stuff with them.

My dzr10’s are up with the dxr12’s but more refined sounding.

Also, it depends on how you’re processing your signal before it gets to the speaker. Was there any other variable in your gig vs rehearsal comparison?

Danny1969

uncledick said:

Danny1969 said:

I've supplied them as monitors but I wouldn't want to use them as mains. They are only around 400 watts of low driver and 100 watts or so for the horn. Nothing like the 1000 watts EV claim. Internally they aren't really built for punishment, some questionable design choices IMHO. 

They do sound good though at lowish levels. However 2nd hand would be a bit of a gamble as you won't know how many hours they have done. All of them tend to go wrong being class D with SMPS's  ... sometimes within a few years. 

QSC K series are quite hardy and can put in a shift of 50 gigs a year for 10 years in my experience. Early Mackies like the SRM450 mark 1's are capable of 20 years or more of trouble free operation, being linear powered and amplified. The M2 and M3's are all class D and SMPS and nowhere near as hardy though. RCF make some nice stuff but it's always a bit on the edge performance wise for me. 

Just be careful buying 2nd hand it's very common for one speaker to go bad and the owner gets that one fixed and then sells the pair before the other one goes faulty. Which it will because it's made in exactly the same way from exactly the same parts. These designs have a life of 5 to 12 years working 7 hours a week in my experience repairing them.

Interesting insight @Danny1969 - thanks.  Do you think we would notice much difference if we just went to the DXR12s rather than the 10s?  They - particularly the Mk2 - are still fetching strong money.

I never use anything other than 12" or 15" driver wise really. All the PA hire stock is 12" with 15" bins or 15" tops with 18" bins for the outside large PA's . When it comes to speakers you get a better efficiency with a bigger driver. I think the 12"s would be a noticeable upgrade. 

What @shufflebeat mentioned is important. You can basically make life a lot easier for your speakers by using EQ to remove lower  frequencies and compression to tame the transients before they reach the speaker. 

Most of today's active speakers do have DSP built onto the input PCB that does this to a small extent .. in fact with the cheap EV's it's the only bit they make as the internal amps and SMPS are generic modules from Hypex in the Netherlands. However the global DSP on the input board isn't as effective as processing the audio on a per channel basis. 

If buying used check the screws on the back, do they look like no ones ever touched them ? If anyone has been in there and it's been repaired then the other one will fail as well at some point for the reasons I mentioned before.