Another Peter Green thread

MikeP

Sorry all but I want to know about this tone



All I find searching is out of phase tone or too much drive and reverb YouTube Peter Green tone demos -which isn't that important here. Is the base tone just a good LP played loud and clean? There's so much nuance of pick action etc coming through. 

Plectrum

There used to be a controversy about what guitar Peter played Albatross on. Some claimed in was a Strat, some an LP. Gary Moore was adamant that it was an LP (and he owned Peter's old LP at the time). When Peter came back to performing he clarified that it was a Strat. So if someone of the stature of Gary Moore can get the type of guitar totally wrong what chance do you think us mere mortals have of correctly answering your question?

MikeP

It sounds like a strat to me, on some of the guitar parts at least.  I don't want really know what he used I just want a route to that type of detailed clean. 

victorludorum

LP with either a Marshall (Bluesbreaker era/start of FM), Matamp/Orange (early FM), or Fenders (Later FM).

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

The tone is nice and all (sounds more like humbuckers than a Strat to my ears), but it's all about the phrasing and the touch to get that PG sound. Hadn't listened to that track in years, but the phrasing is outrageously good - no face melting speed or flashiness, just pure class.

MikeP

Yeah it's shockingly good playing. 

guitars4you

Dontgiveupyourdayjob said:

The tone is nice and all (sounds more like humbuckers than a Strat to my ears), but it's all about the phrasing and the touch to get that PG sound. Hadn't listened to that track in years, but the phrasing is outrageously good - no face melting speed or flashiness, just pure class.

Agree - take into account what they produce - Listen carefully but use this knowledge to make it yours

In part because I can't nail down their exact tone, phrasing etc, then I tend to accept that my version is what it is - In part I think how does a vocalist handle a cover - Take a well known classic - My Way - 2 well known versions - Elvis and Frank - Do you think they spend hours pulling their hair out, trying to nail down each others tone, phrasing etc - Or just sing it their way (no pun intended) - Same lyrics, but certainly their own voice and phrasing

In short I can understand why we are influenced by such hero's - But do we need to try and produce DNA replicas - Or take such a song - Learn the key parts, perform it well and accept that you have now brought into play your own 10 penneth 

Often the original player, never played it the same each time, for one reason or another - Take Kossoff and Free - The gist might be the same, but their are variations within this solo when you look at live versions

So if Albatross is played on a Strat or an LP, then does it matter - Play it your way  - It doesn't need to be a DNA replica especially in the pop, rock, blues, jazz, world - Might be part n parcel of say playing Rodrigo's guitar concerto, but not Albatros 

digitalkettle

But it's a totally valid 'guitar forum minutiae' question.

Fwiw, I thought I heard all three positions on an LP...including out of phase middle...although, that is what I was expecting to hear.

Plectrum

Wise word @guitars4you . And of course when Peter came back to playing (and I had the enormous privilege of seeing him live) he never played LPs much if at all. And sometimes they'd do Albatross on acoustics.

guitars4you

Plectrum said:

Wise word @guitars4you . And of course when Peter came back to playing (and I had the enormous privilege of seeing him live) he never played LPs much if at all. And sometimes they'd do Albatross on acoustics.

Very strong point that about Pete playing different guitar altogether- Think he played a Gibson H Robert’s Fusion quite a bit 

duotone

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/3818977/#Comment_3818977

kelpbeds

I'm running a Peter Green and Albert King style weekend featuring Remi Harris soon with GuitarBreaks if it's of interest.

https://www.guitar-breaks.com/product/blues-classics-remi-harris/

MikeP

Wow that would be great but I'm in Ireland and don't have that type of money to spend on stuff like that sadly. 

PAL

I was fooled by thinking every guitar sound I heard and liked was Peter Green but I was fortunate to know a few 
 people connected to Peter Green and Peter Greens Fleetwood Mac. I'm not trying to take anything away from
 Peter Green and his amazing sound and feel but I discovered that Danny Kirwan could and sounded very close to 
 Peter Green and when Danny joined the band he asked Peter about sound etc. Peter advised Danny to use heavy strings and a higher action ! Danny played Jigsaw Puzzle Blues on a Watkins Rapier 33 ! and you can hear his basic feel and sound on this track it's really good. Yes they did use certain guitars later on but the sound and feel is in their hands. I do use 11s on some guitars and raise the action and you can get very near. I think Gary Moore and Paul Kossoff had the same approach. It's worth a try it may get you near to the sound you are chasing and is obtainable for
the price of a set of strings ! Play clean and you will learn to control your sound and don't use pedals for a driven sound.Good Luck.

MikeP

Where did you hear about strings? Peter said a lot of strange stuff... it's fun trying to hear green and Kirwin apart but the vibrato is the giveaway and Danny seems to mostly play his p90s which sounds pretty different. I'm sure he used p90s on the studio recording of like it this way but you can see him playing paf on a video on YouTube of the same track and it's much harder to tell them apart

PAL

It was first hand information from many years ago. Peter wasn't as strange as people like to think and most people 
  like to home in on the time after he was spiked and then had problems.
  Regarding the strings it's all out there on the internet. Peter did loads of interviews and he does talk about string 
  gauge. Just Google and you will find them. In  a couple of interviews he does say he uses 11s,12s,13s . 
  You can find one of these interviews on the Strings Direct website.
  Heavier strings allow that fast vibrato the higher action allows you to get hold of the string with your finger rather than
  your finger sliding off the string because you don't have any purchase ! Although heavier strings can be a bit stiff
  until you get used to them on the positive side you don't have to bend a heavier string as far as a lighter string to 
  reach the same note. I wouldn't worry too much about pickups or out of phase,Yes they do have there own sounds
  Peter used to get his sound out of one of the earliest Gibson 335 guitars ( The one with the unbound neck )
  You can go down the rabbit hole a bit. The so called burst Les Paul guitars were a lot different than say a modern
   Les Paul. The neck to body joint was about 4 degrees but then Gibson changed this to 5 degrees and the sound 
   changed. The 4 degree neck pitch makes the Les Paul twang a bit like a Fender, 
   In reality all this doesn't matter its all about how you play.

    Here is part of an interview with Peter Green...

     But we do have is this one quote from Peter himself during interview:

“And for guitar strings, nine or 10 gauge?

I would never touch a nine or a 10. I actually prefer 11s or 12s, and at one time used 13s. Especially for slide, I prefer really heavy strings. And I also prefer playing without a pick, because I don’t want to have to think about it.”

Peter Green - guitarpalyer.com                                                                                                                                                       
  You probably have seen this but here is a video of Fleetwood Mac live and you can see how the heavy string
   vibrato works. Good luck.
   

MikeP

That is interesting. I've been working at the tune I posted, obviously the notes themselves are simple enough but it's tricky to know what position on the neck he is in as his high e string sounds like the b string which would make sense with the string guage. 

victorludorum

I think I can safely say I've never seen a picture of Peter Green with a 335.

victorludorum

PAL said:

Although heavier strings can be a bit stiff
  until you get used to them on the positive side you don't have to bend a heavier string as far as a lighter string to reach the same note.

I'd like to hear this done as it would save me a lot of effort on a regular basis.

PAL

victorludorum said:

PAL said:

Although heavier strings can be a bit stiff
  until you get used to them on the positive side you don't have to bend a heavier string as far as a lighter string to reach the same note.

I'd like to hear this done as it would save me a lot of effort on a regular basis.

Check this out it's about 12 minutes into the video.   

Kittyfrisk

PAL said:

I was fooled by thinking every guitar sound I heard and liked was Peter Green but I was fortunate to know a few 
 people connected to Peter Green and Peter Greens Fleetwood Mac. I'm not trying to take anything away from
 Peter Green and his amazing sound and feel but I discovered that Danny Kirwin could and sounded very close to 
 Peter Green and when Danny joined the band he asked Peter about sound etc. Peter advised Danny to use heavy strings and a higher action ! Danny played Jigsaw Puzzle Blues on a Watkins Rapier 33 ! and you can hear his basic feel and sound on this track it's really good. Yes they did use certain guitars later on but the sound and feel is in their hands. I do use 11s on some guitars and raise the action and you can get very near. I think Gary Moore and Paul Kossoff had the same approach. It's worth a try it may get you near to the sound you are chasing and is obtainable for
the price of a set of strings ! Play clean and you will learn to control your sound and don't use pedals for a driven sound.Good Luck.

Just a point for accuracy. It's Danny Kirwan, not Kirwin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Kirwan
'Jigsaw Puzzle Blues' is the 'B' side to the UK release of ' Albatross'.
Bloody marvellous playing on both sides & I agree that it is very hard to distinguish who is playing what part, or even what guitar is in use at any given time on a lot of Fleetwood Mac recorded tunes of the time.