Building my own sound proof room - questions/advice thread

TDubs

I have a building in my garden. Its 100mm timber stud construction, weatherboard clad and sits on a concrete slab. I'm going to partition the space to create a room to make some noise in. The other section will be an office.

The basic plan....

Walls and ceiling - remove the current plasterboard on the stud work and replace the current insulation with 100mm RWA45 Rockwool, then sitting in front of this will be another layer of 100mm RW3 Rockwool. I'm then going to build another 100mm stud frame in front on the second layer of insulation and this will be insulated with 100mm RW5 rockwool. Board this wall with standard plasterboard, a layer of green glue, then another layer of plasterboard. This should create a room within a room.

Floor - hush cradles onto the concrete slab, 3 x 2 sitting within these. 50mm RW5 insulation then 18mm T&G chipboard.

I think the above will get me some decent attenuation for the walls and ceiling. Its the doors and windows that might be a weak point. Any comments on this design/process are welcome!

Windows - Looking at some online window manufacturers making everyday UPVC windows, some of them have sound reduction ratings for the glass. One in particular has their acoustic glass rated at 41db and triple glaze at 32db and i'm thinking of having an acoustic glazed window on the inside and a triple glazed unit on the outside. There will be a circa 200mm air gap between the windows

Window questions;

1. Am I realistically going to get circa 72db of sound attenuation from having these two windows installed?
2. Ideally i'd like to have openers on the windows rather than a fixed frame - will this drastically reduce the acoustic properties of the window (when closed)?
3. The glazing has a dB rating but will this apply to the UPVC frame? I'm concerned the frame might be a weak point?

Any advice on window options is welcome or links to decent products to use.

Doors - My thoughts with the main door into he building is to change it to a steel acoustic door like this

https://www.lathamssteeldoors.co.uk/acoustic-doors/

With a second door inside this. I'll then need two further doors between the studio and the office

Door questions;

1. Has anyone used the like of the latham steel doors and comment on their acoustic properties?
2. Would fire doors (FD60) or solid core doors be decent for the internal doors? If not, other options? More steel doors?
3. Does anyone know the approximate sound attenuation figures for an FD60 or solid core door?

Any advice on door options is welcome or links to decent products to use.

 

AntonHunter

I have no experience to offer at all, but felt the need to comment to request you do a build thread with pictures so I can live vicariously through you :-)

All the best with the project!

Whistler

Hello again. I guess your isolation booth plans have grown.

What sounds good is that this office-studio building is detached and on its own concrete slab in your garden.

What we don't know is how much isolation you need. If you can have someone (drummer, bassist or a PA subwoofer) playing in the building at the sort of volume you expect to be normal, and have someone else with an SPL meter (a real meter or a trustworthy app such as SPL Meter*), take measurements both in the building where the music is being played and also at your property boundary nearest to your neighbour(s).

* The app with this icon, all of 99 US cents. 

Let's say that the music in the building measures 90dBA (dBA makes an allowance for human hearing) and at your neighbour's fence it is 65dBA, you know that you naturally have 25dBA of isolation with the building as it is plus the distance to the property boundary. Your local bylaws will probably state that you should not be inflicting more that 30dBA on your neighbours.

Can you tell us what the real SPL readings are? If the numbers are small then you may get away with just beefing up the existing building. If you need more then you will need to consider more serious options, the most practical one being to build an isolated (ie. non-touching) studio room within the building.

Knowing these figures will help us know what steps you will need to take and that means you can start to put a price on the project. Do you happen to have a budget in mind for this?

Just one more question for now, as I don't have it clear in my mind: are you wanting to create one room with dual purposes, sutio and office, or create two rooms, a studio and an office, separately but both in the building?

Caffeine_Vampire

I've got a composite external door and a solid wood internal into mine. I also managed to get some RW3 100mm Rockwool from a firm in Leeds for the basstraps. No idea of the actual attention figures but when I have someone over and playing through a 'real' amp at a greater volume than I think is necessary, if I stand 10ft back it's about as obvious as someone listening to a radio quietly inside their house. There's a fine line between cost and results. After a certain point the return on your money just isn't worth it. No doubt you'll get more knowledgeable replies than mine but if you're ever in the area feel free to call and check my place out.

Danny1969

I've done a few studios. 2 of them were garage conversions and 1 was a 3200 sqt professional studio. There's a few simple points to consider which are  

The only thing that stops sound is mass. 
So materials need to have a lot of mass. Concrete blocks rather than breeze or thermalite. Multiple layers of 12mm plasterboard. Hollow plastic extrusion suck as PVC windowsill needs to be filled with sand. Insulation should be Rockwool acoustic slab or similar not Celotex type. 

Sound goes through gaps. So construction needs tighter tolerances than a builder will allow for. Windows measured to within 5mm of the hole and then the gap filled completely with acoustic fireproof caulk. Plasterboard needs to be cut so it fits properly then  taped and caulked. Then the next layer needs to be staggered so the joints don't fall in the same place. 

Don't cut into plasterboard for socket patreses ... the sound will go straight through the plastic. Surface mount the sockets. 

Windows should be double glazed doubled up with a 50mm or so between them. Likewise doors. Solid vandal proof fire doors are fine. 

Attenuation depends on frequency. It's very easy to stop mid and high frequencies but low frequencies are far harder to attenuate. Getting good reduction below 90Hz ish is difficult as there's enough energy there to vibrate a whole building if the volume is loud enough. But you can take enough energy off that steeping 5 metres away from the building will see them attenuated enough for most people. 

I used to track guitars in my garage studio at deafening volume past midnight and outside the garage it was fine. No complaints over 5 years. 

TDubs

AntonHunter said:

I have no experience to offer at all, but felt the need to comment to request you do a build thread with pictures so I can live vicariously through you :-)

All the best with the project!

@AntonHunter maybe I will put some progress shots here!

TDubs

Whistler said:

Hello again. I guess your isolation booth plans have grown.

What sounds good is that this office-studio building is detached and on its own concrete slab in your garden.

What we don't know is how much isolation you need. If you can have someone (drummer, bassist or a PA subwoofer) playing in the building at the sort of volume you expect to be normal, and have someone else with an SPL meter (a real meter or a trustworthy app such as SPL Meter*), take measurements both in the building where the music is being played and also at your property boundary nearest to your neighbour(s).

* The app with this icon, all of 99 US cents. 

Let's say that the music in the building measures 90dBA (dBA makes an allowance for human hearing) and at your neighbour's fence it is 65dBA, you know that you naturally have 25dBA of isolation with the building as it is plus the distance to the property boundary. Your local bylaws will probably state that you should not be inflicting more that 30dBA on your neighbours.

Can you tell us what the real SPL readings are? If the numbers are small then you may get away with just beefing up the existing building. If you need more then you will need to consider more serious options, the most practical one being to build an isolated (ie. non-touching) studio room within the building.

Knowing these figures will help us know what steps you will need to take and that means you can start to put a price on the project. Do you happen to have a budget in mind for this?

Just one more question for now, as I don't have it clear in my mind: are you wanting to create one room with dual purposes, sutio and office, or create two rooms, a studio and an office, separately but both in the building?

I away from home at the moment but will take some readings when back.

Hopefully my design (nabbed from videos i've watched), stud outer wall, rockwool filled space in between, stud inner wall should create this room within a room.

The materials seem to be in the region of £5k.

The out building will be split into two, one separate studio and one office.

TDubs

Caffeine_Vampire said:

I've got a composite external door and a solid wood internal into mine. I also managed to get some RW3 100mm Rockwool from a firm in Leeds for the basstraps. No idea of the actual attention figures but when I have someone over and playing through a 'real' amp at a greater volume than I think is necessary, if I stand 10ft back it's about as obvious as someone listening to a radio quietly inside their house. There's a fine line between cost and results. After a certain point the return on your money just isn't worth it. No doubt you'll get more knowledgeable replies than mine but if you're ever in the area feel free to call and check my place out.

What is the build up of your walls and ceiling? Whats the floor made up of? I'd be interested in your attenuation fihures with the composite and timber door.

TDubs

Danny1969 said:

I've done a few studios. 2 of them were garage conversions and 1 was a 3200 sqt professional studio. There's a few simple points to consider which are  

The only thing that stops sound is mass. 
So materials need to have a lot of mass. Concrete blocks rather than breeze or thermalite. Multiple layers of 12mm plasterboard. Hollow plastic extrusion suck as PVC windowsill needs to be filled with sand. Insulation should be Rockwool acoustic slab or similar not Celotex type. 

Sound goes through gaps. So construction needs tighter tolerances than a builder will allow for. Windows measured to within 5mm of the hole and then the gap filled completely with acoustic fireproof caulk. Plasterboard needs to be cut so it fits properly then  taped and caulked. Then the next layer needs to be staggered so the joints don't fall in the same place. 

Don't cut into plasterboard for socket patreses ... the sound will go straight through the plastic. Surface mount the sockets. 

Windows should be double glazed doubled up with a 50mm or so between them. Likewise doors. Solid vandal proof fire doors are fine. 

Attenuation depends on frequency. It's very easy to stop mid and high frequencies but low frequencies are far harder to attenuate. Getting good reduction below 90Hz ish is difficult as there's enough energy there to vibrate a whole building if the volume is loud enough. But you can take enough energy off that steeping 5 metres away from the building will see them attenuated enough for most people. 

I used to track guitars in my garage studio at deafening volume past midnight and outside the garage it was fine. No complaints over 5 years. 

Thanks @Danny1969 ;


This is my concern about the UPVC windows. Its all well and good the glazing having a db attenuation rating but if the upvc lets all the sound through then its no good. 

I had planned to alternate directions of the the plasterboard and the middle layer of insulation to counter gaps. 

So solid doors as good as the steel ones?

TDubs

Danny1969 said:

Hollow plastic extrusion suck as PVC windowsill needs to be filled with sand. 

@Danny1969 have you filled UPvC frames with sand before? If so, how did you do it?

I quick google leads to a load of information about sanding frames, not filling them with sand.

Caffeine_Vampire

TDubs said:

Caffeine_Vampire said:

I've got a composite external door and a solid wood internal into mine. I also managed to get some RW3 100mm Rockwool from a firm in Leeds for the basstraps. No idea of the actual attention figures but when I have someone over and playing through a 'real' amp at a greater volume than I think is necessary, if I stand 10ft back it's about as obvious as someone listening to a radio quietly inside their house. There's a fine line between cost and results. After a certain point the return on your money just isn't worth it. No doubt you'll get more knowledgeable replies than mine but if you're ever in the area feel free to call and check my place out.

What is the build up of your walls and ceiling? Whats the floor made up of? I'd be interested in your attenuation fihures with the composite and timber door.

Its been a while but the walls are single skin brick and concrete block with a timber frame and rockwool. The floor was originally concrete but a false raised floor was created with timber with a screed laid to level it first.

Danny1969

TDubs said:

Danny1969 said:

Hollow plastic extrusion suck as PVC windowsill needs to be filled with sand. 

@Danny1969 have you filled UPvC frames with sand before? If so, how did you do it?

I quick google leads to a load of information about sanding frames, not filling them with sand.

Sorry that should read hollow plastic extrusion such as UPVC window sill  .. so the sills not the frames. Although I can't see much of a problem filling a frame.  In the commercial studio we actually make our own frames and had the glass units made up to our sizes. We did fill steel supports with sand there too as hollow metal vibrates with sound. 

TDubs

Danny1969 said:

TDubs said:

Danny1969 said:

Hollow plastic extrusion suck as PVC windowsill needs to be filled with sand. 

@Danny1969 have you filled UPvC frames with sand before? If so, how did you do it?

I quick google leads to a load of information about sanding frames, not filling them with sand.

Sorry that should read hollow plastic extrusion such as UPVC window sill  .. so the sills not the frames. Although I can't see much of a problem filling a frame.  In the commercial studio we actually make our own frames and had the glass units made up to our sizes. We did fill steel supports with sand there too as hollow metal vibrates with sound. 

Cheers. I’ve found a place online that will supply windows with acoustic glass and timber frames for the same price as I’ve seen UPVC windows up for. I reckon this might be a better option for me.

Caffeine_Vampire

Do you need windows? 

TDubs

Caffeine_Vampire said:

Do you need windows? 

There’s already a window in place (600x900) and it would be nice to keep it.

Musicwolf

My advice would be to start with a copy of Rod Gervais' book, Home Recording Studio, Build it Like the Pros.

As has been said, you need mass, isolation / de-coupling and you need it to be air-tight.  You also need to clear as to how much attenuation you require depending upon how you will use the room and your proximity to neighbours.

Caffeine_Vampire

TDubs said:

Caffeine_Vampire said:

Do you need windows? 

There’s already a window in place (600x900) and it would be nice to keep it.

Fair enough. I do miss natural light in mine sometimes. 

Musicwolf

Caffeine_Vampire said:

TDubs said:

Caffeine_Vampire said:

Do you need windows? 

There’s already a window in place (600x900) and it would be nice to keep it.

Fair enough. I do miss natural light in mine sometimes. 

My garage conversion has a window - and it's a definite weak link from a sound attenuation point of view.  Fortunately I'm not trying to record a drum kit or a bass amp.

Caffeine_Vampire

Musicwolf said:

Caffeine_Vampire said:

TDubs said:

Caffeine_Vampire said:

Do you need windows? 

There’s already a window in place (600x900) and it would be nice to keep it.

Fair enough. I do miss natural light in mine sometimes. 

My garage conversion has a window - and it's a definite weak link from a sound attenuation point of view.  Fortunately I'm not trying to record a drum kit or a bass amp.

I'd probably explode in natural light anyway. It's a vampire thing.

robinbowes

Musicwolf said:

My advice would be to start with a copy of Rod Gervais' book, Home Recording Studio, Build it Like the Pros.

As has been said, you need mass, isolation / de-coupling and you need it to be air-tight.  You also need to clear as to how much attenuation you require depending upon how you will use the room and your proximity to neighbours.

This.

It's a great book, and worth a thorough read before you start spending money.

As @Musicwolf says, "you need mass, isolation / de-coupling and you need it to be air-tight".

It's all explained well in the book!

R.

TDubs

Musicwolf said:

Caffeine_Vampire said:

TDubs said:

Caffeine_Vampire said:

Do you need windows? 

There’s already a window in place (600x900) and it would be nice to keep it.

Fair enough. I do miss natural light in mine sometimes. 

My garage conversion has a window - and it's a definite weak link from a sound attenuation point of view.  Fortunately I'm not trying to record a drum kit or a bass amp.

What type of window do you have? Do you have one window or one on the outside and one on the inside?