Tested: hot hide glue ...

OilCityPickups

So ... as those of you who have been following my double bass restoring thread will know - I've gone all traditional with my gluing options for this job, 
I think when you are dealing with an old instrument and given it'll probably outlive you and your kids if you do the repair well you ought to make things as easy as possible for those coming after me if they want do more repairs. Also of course I'd always wanted to try the 'real deal' of the glues world. 
The first step was to get a solution for heating the glue to a stable 145F ... and here Amazon was my friend.  and sub £30 this little beauty is bang on accurate tested with my workshop thermal probe (oooer Missus). 
The granulated hide glue was not as cheap as I thought ... till I realised I'd bought enough to glue about ten double basses together! It don't take much in the granules department to make up a fair whack of glue. 

So a little prep is needed the night before you want to use it - you mix the granules with their own volume of cold water (I used an old Piccalilli pot with a screw lid for this ... and pretty soon the granules will have hydrated to look like bizarre swollen caviar! 
 



Within about a half hour of turning on the heater (time to brew a coffee) ... the glue was the sort of 'watery custard' consistency that works best. 
So - I laminated up some mahogany to use for the spacers in the neck socket of my bass and I simply can't believe how easy it is. 
Slop on the glue and immediately clamp (warm the parts with a hairdryer for mor 'open' time.
Within an hour the glued parts could be handled (if it was something like gluing in a neck joint I'd give it the full 12/24 hours to reach full bond strength) .  Clean up was a doddle - far less trouble than Titebond - and as an as someone with sensitive skin, any that gets on your fingers is much less likely to cause issues.

After I'd finished with the glue for the day I let the jar cool down, then popped it in the fridge - mould is the enemy of hide glue, but next to the Brie and pâté it can keep for months I'm told. 

Well I must say I'm impressed - I don't really do gluing up jobs without warning, so warming up a batch of glue is no biggie - it's clean, easy and I think even smells quite nice (doggy chew anybody?). Best of all ... if you feck up you can take things apart fairly easily with heat and moisture - and you don't even have to clear away the old glue to re glue, as hide glue reactivates itself and sticks to old hide glue (not old PVA however). 

Now I have thrown away so many containers of Titebond because they've gone solid with age ... that just mixing up what you need and no more is very attractive.

So if you build or repair instruments this approach comes fully recommended 







 

WezV

Just be careful storing it in glass jars... it will shrink and can implode as it does

OilCityPickups

WezV said:

Just be careful storing it in glass jars... it will shrink and can implode as it does

lid not tightened till glue hardened - and I'm about to do the ice tray trick that was recommended to me. 

WezV

Cool, just a general warning with it.  I think many do get away with it in glass jars.  I tend to use little disposable plastic glue bottles with a nozzle.

I have been using an antique glue pot for heating.  I should probably upgrade to an electric one at some point, but its still better than the bean tin and saucepan my grandad used for his when repairing pianos

OilCityPickups

WezV said:

Cool, just a general warning with it.  I think many do get away with it in glass jars.  I tend to use little disposable plastic glue bottles with a nozzle.

I have been using an antique glue pot for heating.  I should probably upgrade to an electric one at some point, but its still better than the bean tin and saucepan my grandad used for his when repairing pianos

That 30 quid wax pot is really rather good ... nowt much to go wrong with it. 

MikeP

This is great, giving me confidence to give it a go!

OilCityPickups

MikeP said:

This is great, giving me confidence to give it a go!

Honestly ... it's really simple. I think a lot of mystique has grown up around hide glue ... that it's difficult and exacting. That it's for 'serious' builders and Uncle Geppetto types in aprons who never touch power tools and probably have mice as helpers. 
It's only real drawback is its short 'open time' if you don't warm the components - the secret here I think is to work out exactly what you want to do - dry run it - warm the parts - then crack on. 

MikeP

This thread is more influential than I imagined. The amazon put you linked is sold out die to exceptionally high demand!

BillDL

I'm glad the stuff you bought doesn't smell bad.  In my home town the original "old town" was centred around a stinky small river and they had a livestock auction ring, a slaughterhouse, and a tannery all next to each other.  A couple of elderly brothers had a large antique furniture repair and restoration business very close by and in the days before the slaughterhouse closed in the early 70s they obviously procured their raw source materials from there.  I had cause to be in there speaking with them in their upstairs accomodation that itself was like a dusty old warehouse, and they were cooking up their glue in a large pot.  It stank to high heaven, and you could smell it wafting down the street.  I recall seeing animal hooves poking up out of the pot as it was simmering away.

WezV

MikeP said:

This thread is more influential than I imagined. The amazon put you linked is sold out die to exceptionally high demand!

3 available this morning - I just ordered one.

Anyone need a cast iron glue pot?

PeteC

Nice thread.   Ive done a few fretboards and neck pockets with HHG now and really like how it handles/sets.  Feels more “mojo” too.   I cant really tell if it sounds any different than a Titebond joint but it feels good to use a traditional material.    I use a second hand Tommee Tippee baby bottle warmer to heat mine and keep it at the right temperature.  It was £3 off ebay !   I’ve been using the Boldgers HHG granules so far.   I wasnt sure if it was the right gram strength but test pieces of maple and mahogany had to be smashed with a hammer to break them apart and the wood failed before the joint so I’m sticking with it.  

MikeP

WezV said:

MikeP said:

This thread is more influential than I imagined. The amazon put you linked is sold out die to exceptionally high demand!

3 available this morning - I just ordered one.

Anyone need a cast iron glue pot?

Ah maybe because I'm in Ireland... there's your Brexit bonus glue pot for you. 

OilCityPickups

Yesterday I did the full on 'glue up one side of my double bass heel pocket facings - using a shaped 'dummy neck heel' wedge to clamp it. Here's a tip: use Sellotape on any wedge or clamp faces that may get glue on them and thus firmly get stuck to your workpiece. Sellotape still allows wedges to slide into place  but hide glue won't stick to it! 

thermionic

Why would you hide glue?

To stop the punks sniffing it!

BillDL

I think your coat's here somewhere. Oh, here it is ........  

Sporky

BillDL said:

they were cooking up their glue in a large pot.  It stank to high heaven, and you could smell it wafting down the street.  I recall seeing animal hooves poking up out of the pot as it was simmering away.

Hide glue is different from hoof glue - dries rubbery, I think, where hide glue dries very hard.

Also who keeps brie and pate on the same shelf? Savages, that's who.  

PeteC

Anyone else using the bolgers granules?. They dont specify the gram strength on the packaging. 

OilCityPickups

PeteC said:

Anyone else using the bolgers granules?. They dont specify the gram strength on the packaging. 

I've read and seen videos that suggest that the gram strength is not too vitally important. Something around the 192 is perfect for neck joints for example. The higher the gram strength the less flexibility and the more likelihood of shock fracture. 

PeteC

Thats right - luthier Beau Hannam has some good info on his YT videos.  Would be good to
know what the gram strength of the bolgers stuff is - i have about a kilo of it ! 

Penn

I used scotch glue for veneering and doing joints when I trained as a cabinet maker. Always hated the smell. I was always told it was similar to the fat in a port pie. Never had a pork pie to verify. 

We never had issues storing it. We’d always have a pot of it on the bench and used it for everything.  

PVA was better in some ways, less smell, more open time. 

We used cascamite too, that was great for using in a heated press to do stuff like table tops. 

elstoof

Love me a bit of cascamite. It’s essentially what Les Paul tops are glued with as far as I can tell