Guitar tuners - flats v sharps

Voxman

This query cropped up on one of the Facebook pages.  Some tuners (pedals, clip ons, integrated in MFX etc) show the 'flat' eg Eb whilst others show the sharp (eg D#).  It's the same note of course, just a different notation. I think most players, including myself, tend to think in flats, rather than sharps, so i was just wondering why there doesn't seem to be a common approach for guitar tuners?

stickyfiddle

I think Bb, Eb, F#, C#, G# 

Probably because I started with classical piano clarinet & sax, and they’re the ones you see most often. And also sax sees you playing with 3 sharps quite often. 

HAL9000

I tend to usually think in sharps since most songs - well, the ones I play anyway - for guitar are in ‘sharp’ keys (where the stave shows ‘#’s rather than’b’s). Strangely though I tend to think of that dim7 chord in Need Your Love So Bad as Eb dim7 rather than D# dim7 despite the song being in a ‘sharp’ key.

Sporky

Voxman said:

I think most players, including myself, tend to think in flats, rather than sharps

Surely you think in whichever the key has? 

timmypix

Sporky said:

Voxman said:

I think most players, including myself, tend to think in flats, rather than sharps

Surely you think in whichever the key has? 

When tuning strings?

bobacco

I tend to think more in colours - green and red. 

BillDL

<ignore>  I prefer bobacco's answer.

UnclePsychosis

Why would a completely arbitrary label that makes zero difference to anybody require a common approach?

fretmeister

UnclePsychosis said:

Why would a completely arbitrary label that makes zero difference to anybody require a common approach?

You'd be amazed.

"Can I set the tuner to the other way" questions appear on the facebook pedalgroups all the time.

Jonathangus

I think most people who tune other than E standard tend to tune down, so flats make more sense to me.  I would think of tuning  to Eb not D#.

Voxman

Jonathangus said:

I think most people who tune other than E standard tend to tune down, so flats make more sense to me.  I would think of tuning  to Eb not D#.

Yes, its in this context that the query cropped up. Some folk find the tuner showing D# rather than Eb off putting. 

Sporky said:

Voxman said:

I think most players, including myself, tend to think in flats, rather than sharps

Surely you think in whichever the key has? 

As above, only for tuning purposes

Jonathangus said:

I think most people who tune other than E standard tend to tune down, so flats make more sense to me.  I would think of tuning  to Eb not D#.

And hence the theme raised on FB re the tuner notation.

fretmeister said:

UnclePsychosis said:

Why would a completely arbitrary label that makes zero difference to anybody require a common approach?

You'd be amazed.

"Can I set the tuner to the other way" questions appear on the facebook pedalgroups all the time.

Absolutely this, hence my post.

digitalkettle

timmypix said:

Sporky said:

Voxman said:

I think most players, including myself, tend to think in flats, rather than sharps

Surely you think in whichever the key has? 

When tuning strings?

Yep…don’t mute: it’s performance art!

digitalkettle

On a gig, my guitars are tuned to Eb standard so I definitely think of all the pitches as flats.

 However, because I’m simply maintaining this tuning (and not a selection of open tunings, etc), I don’t really think about the target pitch*; just ‘is it at pitch yet? is the strobe moving slowly enough?’. But I am still in a world of flatness though: always tune up to pitch…if you overshoot; re-flatten and go again.

* there was that one time the first number was in drop-D and I only managed to raise it by a semitone for the next tune…an unexpected maj7 bass note was a pant expanding moment (and not the good side).

carlos

Depends which one is closer to C major. Eb is the 2nd flat whereas D# is the 4th sharp. Typing this I've realised it won't make sense to most people but it does to me.

Plectrum

My tuners all show a #. It's never been an issue to me.

CarbonCopy

carlos said:

Depends which one is closer to C major. Eb is the 2nd flat whereas D# is the 4th sharp. Typing this I've realised it won't make sense to most people but it does to me.

Agreed, it doesn't make sense to me! There are no flats or sharps in the key or chord of C major. 

Voxman

CarbonCopy said:

carlos said:

Depends which one is closer to C major. Eb is the 2nd flat whereas D# is the 4th sharp. Typing this I've realised it won't make sense to most people but it does to me.

Agreed, it doesn't make sense to me! There are no flats or sharps in the key or chord of C major. 

As above, and just to reclarify, the OP relates to guitar tuning only and not keys or chords.

thecolourbox

CarbonCopy said:

carlos said:

Depends which one is closer to C major. Eb is the 2nd flat whereas D# is the 4th sharp. Typing this I've realised it won't make sense to most people but it does to me.

Agreed, it doesn't make sense to me! There are no flats or sharps in the key or chord of C major. 

do you mean B# major?

Dave_Mc

It definitely can be confusing, and needlessly so, especially if you're a newer player. I've been playing for years (and I played piano before guitar, so I was reasonably au-fait with notes even before I played guitar) and every so often I still have to remind myself that e.g. D# is the same as Eb if I'm tuning half a step down. (I think that means I must tend to think in flats!)

flying_pie

thecolourbox said:

CarbonCopy said:

carlos said:

Depends which one is closer to C major. Eb is the 2nd flat whereas D# is the 4th sharp. Typing this I've realised it won't make sense to most people but it does to me.

Agreed, it doesn't make sense to me! There are no flats or sharps in the key or chord of C major. 

do you mean B# major?

Don't be silly. He means Dbb Ionian 

carlos

Flats go BEADGCF, sharps go FCGDAEB
So... let's say only one sharp like F# is closer to C than Gb. Come on, you know what I'm talking about.