I'm rubbish and I can't get any better

gearaddict

I'm 55. Been playing since I was 14 or 15. Been in a band for about 20 years - just a very crappy pub covers band, nothing special. Over the last couple of years I have been becoming increasing frustrated at my inability to play certain things. Some things I can kind of play but not consistently and certainly not well enough to play in front of people.

I've tried a few teachers over the last couple of years but they haven't really addressed the things that bother me. I feel like there's something wrong with my picking hand especially. To move between arpeggio type picking and faster tremolo-style picking I have to alter the position of my hand - I can't keep the same hand position throughout. And I can't palm mute the low strings and pick at any kind of speed without dropping my elbow right down so that my forearm is almost parallel with the strings. Which is a weird position when standing. I really feel like there is something about the physiology of my arm that just doesn't work for guitar. It's so frustrating.

Teachers just say the same things - slow it down, play it at a speed where it's easy and build up the speed slowly. But the speed doesn't come. Recently there have been songs I'd like to play that I've had to give up on - like Mr Brightside for example. I can play the riff but only once or twice, then I'm making mistakes - and it never feels relaxed. I've been working on that one for months. To the point where I'm actually sick of the song now!

People say I should just play what I can play and focus on the quality of what I can do...but I just find that depressing and it makes me lose the will to play.

Anyone identify with this stuff? Maybe find a way through it?

Cheers. 

Winny_Pooh

When you tried the teacher's advice, did you try it with a metronome and Plenty of time more than you need on paper? Say 2 hours? 

It's easy to give up too soon, it's much harder to take 45 minutes to play something over and over. 

Jaycee

I found https://www.guitarprinciples.com/  excellent. I have two of Jamies books and when I get stuck I got back to the basics in the books. particularly "no tempo" practise  

hexaphone

So far I'm finding video courses much better than in-person ones for "mechanical" technique.

For playing with a plectrum Troy Grady's Cracking the Code might be helpful. The courses are all about the picking hand and mechanics of the wrist and forearm, with lots of slow motion videos

https://troygrady.com/

Just recently I've got Tom Howard's courses and his Effortless Shred is a nice practice method for precision and speed.

https://tomshreds.mykajabi.com/es

digitalkettle

gearaddict said:

...
I've tried a few teachers over the last couple of years but they haven't really addressed the things that bother me. I feel like there's something wrong with my picking hand especially. To move between arpeggio type picking and faster tremolo-style picking I have to alter the position of my hand - I can't keep the same hand position throughout. And I can't palm mute the low strings and pick at any kind of speed without dropping my elbow right down so that my forearm is almost parallel with the strings. Which is a weird position when standing. I really feel like there is something about the physiology of my arm that just doesn't work for guitar. It's so frustrating.
...

It's normal to have a variety of arm/hand attitudes depending on what you're playing.

gearaddict said:

...
Teachers just say the same things - slow it down, play it at a speed where it's easy and build up the speed slowly. But the speed doesn't come. Recently there have been songs I'd like to play that I've had to give up on - like Mr Brightside for example. I can play the riff but only once or twice, then I'm making mistakes - and it never feels relaxed. I've been working on that one for months. To the point where I'm actually sick of the song now!
...

Join the club...amirite? ;D
Nobody finds Mr B easy...work up to it with simpler patterns and slower tempos.
If you're methodical, you'll find the bugs you need to iron out...something like this rough sketch I knocked up:

pintspiller

Ive been playing just under 40 years on and off. Been in originals bands and cover bands. I just play what I like and give up on stuff that I can't get to grips with.

Lestratcaster

Some of it is how you hold the pick and getting the right pick that suits you. The right hand is really important to playing well, to me what makes a good player is the tightness and control of the picking hand - not the speed of the fretting fingers.

Agree with simplifying a pattern and working up from there. Many graded exam versions of the popular songs are simplified to make it easier to play whilst keeping the core components of the part.

gearaddict

digitalkettle said:

Join the club...amirite? ;D
Nobody finds Mr B easy...work up to it with simpler patterns and slower tempos.
If you're methodical, you'll find the bugs you need to iron out...something like this rough sketch I knocked up:

Cheers for that. TBH I'm not even attempting to play it the correct way - I was using the cheat method with the capo as per Johnny Marr at Glasto. But the picking isn't all that different - just makes it easier on the fretting hand.

theatreanchor

pintspiller said:

Ive been playing just under 40 years on and off. Been in originals bands and cover bands. I just play what I like and give up on stuff that I can't get to grips with.

I think this is me too. 

gearaddict

pintspiller said:

Ive been playing just under 40 years on and off. Been in originals bands and cover bands. I just play what I like and give up on stuff that I can't get to grips with.

I suspect you can get to grips with more things than I can 

tone1

I’m a bit shite too…..let’s have a sub-forum of crappy enthusiasts……

Open_G

Having DCD means that while I can always improve my technique, there’s a lower overall ceiling for me because of this. I can keep up technically with someone like Noel Gallagher without putting too much effort in but I find myself adapting most things I play to suit my technical ability. Id add that this hasn’t held me back from being a regular live player in a series of pretty decent bands. 

spev11

tone1 said:

I’m a bit shite too…..let’s have a sub-forum of crappy enthusiasts……

I'm in 

steamabacus

gearaddict said:

Teachers just say the same things - slow it down, play it at a speed where it's easy and build up the speed slowly. But the speed doesn't come. Recently there have been songs I'd like to play that I've had to give up on - like Mr Brightside for example. I can play the riff but only once or twice, then I'm making mistakes - and it never feels relaxed.

Something occurs to me with what you've written above, particularly the highlighted bit. I'm going to suggest you maybe look at this from the opposite direction.

Relaxing is actually not easy and not inevitable with practice. Speaking personally, I've noticed over the years a tendency to physically tense up when concentrating hard. When learning something challenging I've had to work at - once I've got the part under my fingers - relaxing enough to play it fluently. Often I will play something over and over repetitively until it starts to hurt  and bring some awareness to where it's aching - then begin to consciously start to relax those areas.

I once had someone start to massage my shoulders and go, "Ooooh - guitarist's shoulders!". A bass player in my old band (a very good technical player) had trouble with his jaw and discovered he had a tendency to subconsciously grit his teeth when playing. If you look at a lot of players you'll see all sorts of physical tension if you look closely.

You've been playing 40 years, in a band for 20, so you probably have some pretty ingrained postural 'bad habits'. Rather than trying to play something well so that it feels relaxed maybe take the approach of trying to be relaxed so that you play something well. It's a subtle shift in perspective that can be very effective.

I've dabbled in a bit of Tai Chi in the past (had a mate who taught it) and it's a great discipline for learning relaxed physical movement while concentrating intensely. I've also done a fair bit of Buddhist meditaion which has helped me understand how to apply some awareness to my playing and try to be more relaxed (which I'm not naturally). Sitting still and relaxed, ostensibly 'doing nothing', seems like the easiest thing in the world but believe me it's not. You'll encounter all sorts of physical aches and pains getting in the way of that 'doing nothing'!

 

AntonHunter

steamabacus said:

gearaddict said:

Teachers just say the same things - slow it down, play it at a speed where it's easy and build up the speed slowly. But the speed doesn't come. Recently there have been songs I'd like to play that I've had to give up on - like Mr Brightside for example. I can play the riff but only once or twice, then I'm making mistakes - and it never feels relaxed.

Something occurs to me with what you've written above, particularly the highlighted bit. I'm going to suggest you maybe look at this from the opposite direction.

Relaxing is actually not easy and not inevitable with practice. Speaking personally, I've noticed over the years a tendency to physically tense up when concentrating hard. When learning something challenging I've had to work at - once I've got the part under my fingers - relaxing enough to play it fluently. Often I will play something over and over repetitively until it starts to hurt  and bring some awareness to where it's aching - then begin to consciously start to relax those areas.

I once had someone start to massage my shoulders and go, "Ooooh - guitarist's shoulders!". A bass player in my old band (a very good technical player) had trouble with his jaw and discovered he had a tendency to subconsciously grit his teeth when playing. If you look at a lot of players you'll see all sorts of physical tension if you look closely.

You've been playing 40 years, in a band for 20, so you probably have some pretty ingrained postural 'bad habits'. Rather than trying to play something well so that it feels relaxed maybe take the approach of trying to be relaxed so that you play something well. It's a subtle shift in perspective that can be very effective.

I've dabbled in a bit of Tai Chi in the past (had a mate who taught it) and it's a great discipline for learning relaxed physical movement while concentrating intensely. I've also done a fair bit of Buddhist meditaion which has helped me understand how to apply some awareness to my playing and try to be more relaxed (which I'm not naturally). Sitting still and relaxed, ostensibly 'doing nothing', seems like the easiest thing in the world but believe me it's not. You'll encounter all sorts of physical aches and pains getting in the way of that 'doing nothing'!

 

All of this is good advice. Also look up Alexander Technique. I had a good teacher for a while that really helped with holding too much tension.

fastonebaz

Prolly the way you grip yr pick.

Pinching it between the side of Yr fore finger and the flesh of Yr thumb (rather than the flesh of Yr fore finger and thumb) can make  world of difference for picking speed.

Dr_Necessiter

spev11 said:

tone1 said:

I’m a bit shite too…..let’s have a sub-forum of crappy enthusiasts……

I'm in 

Bet I’m shitter than both of you!! 

TheBigDipper

Sometimes, you have to go backwards a bit in order to go forwards. This doesn't always tie in with having to deliver an end product. That can then make us stop trying, and we never change things. 

As an example of what I mean...  

I wrote a particular song when I was younger, and I still play it - it's a good song. I wrote it for an electric and played it using a pick. There's a very rhythmic arpeggio using a first position Em chord that runs through the verse like clockwork and I can play it like clockwork with all the strings ringing out. 

Since the start of this year I've been pretty much playing acoustic, not electric, and I've made a commitment to reverting back to playing with my fingers, not a pick. If I play this arpeggio using just my thumb and first finger, it's fine - the mechanics are similar to using a pick. If I try and play it "efficiently" with each string getting a specific finger, I'm still struggling with the balance of volume between strings and sometimes the timing drifts as a result. 

I've gone backwards for this song, but if I stop trying, I'll never go forwards. So I'm practising it at home using my fingers. I'm still performing it using a pick, but that's so ingrained it doesn't need practice. Luckily, the muscle memories are different enough that just putting the pick down is enough to switch and one isn't confusing the other (I think...). 

There is no magic bullet that I can find, just effective practice with a focus, and taking small steps at a slow tempo. 

munckee

spev11 said:

tone1 said:

I’m a bit shite too…..let’s have a sub-forum of crappy enthusiasts……

I'm in 

Yep, guitars are for buying and admiring and occasionally making rubbish noises on, disappointingly a lot of people seem to get it wrong. 

TheBigDipper

munckee said:

spev11 said:

tone1 said:

I’m a bit shite too…..let’s have a sub-forum of crappy enthusiasts……

I'm in 

Yep, guitars are for buying and admiring and occasionally making rubbish noises on, disappointingly a lot of people seem to get it wrong. 

This. There's a lot to be said for the joys of ownership. We've all got guitars that we can't play as well as the instrument deserves to be played. But that doesn't mean we should be miserable about owning them, does it? Nah! 

Hoof

Despite being primarily a rock/metal player for nearly 35 years there is a level I just can't reach, particularly with lead playing. I would say I am very good rhythm guitar player who can play a bit of lead. When I am well practiced I can just about pull off the Crazy Train solo (albeit with the bar band version of the last run) but beyond that I have never progressed. There just seems to be a finite speed my fingers will move no matter how much I practice. That said, I simply cannot sit and practice a part to a metronome for an extended period of time without getting distracted and it seems that is what those who can really shred are capable of doing. 

But the flipside of this constant distraction is creativity. As soon as I learn a new technique or lick I usually come up with an idea and persue that instead of concentrating on what I set out to do. 

The way I see it, learning other people's stuff is a way of inspiring your own creativity, but then I have always been more comfortable playing in originals bands rather than covers. When I do covers, I take the rhythm parts and vocal duties usually.