How do I create a guitar solo?

Rocker

My friend and I are ‘working’ on the Steve Winwood song ‘Dear Mr Fantasy’ and I would like to create my own guitar solo rather than learning the solo that Winwood played.  More likely learning a segment of one of his solos as his guitar solos dwarf his singing time.

The solo is in A minor pentatonic and despite many hours trying, the end result is nothing.  I don’t want an improvised thing but a solo that is identifiable and repeatable.  All help appreciated as always.  Thanks.

NickBotfield

A few suggestions:

Have a listen to the vocal melody and see if there are any bits that catch your ear and use them as a starting point.

Hum or sing your own melody and use the natural breathing points when you play the same thing on the guitar.

Instead of sticking to a scale, stick to a single string and slide up and down to create a melody that you find interesting, then work out how to play it across all the strings.

If you play any other instruments try and come up with something on that - it'll stop you from sticking to familiar fretboard shapes and licks.

fastonebaz

Participate in this forums' SOTM to get practice at it,  its handy having a goal such as this to build on yr skills and ideas.

stratman3142

fastonebaz said:

Participate in this forums' SOTM to get practice at it,  its handy having a goal such as this to build on yr skills and ideas.

Wise advice

stratman3142

I agree with what's already been said.

There's a Larry Carlton video, where he talks about 'question and answer', or 'call and response', phrasing. So you play a phrase and then, in effect, respond to it. That made an impression on me and can help to produce a coherent melodic solo that tells story.

flying_pie

stratman3142 said:

I agree with what's already been said.

There's a Larry Carlton video, where he talks about 'question and answer', or 'call and response', phrasing. So you play a phrase and then, in effect, respond to it. That made an impression on me and can help to produce a coherent melodic solo that tells story.

Tim Pierce also talks about varying the licks so you don't play multiple fast or slow ones in a row. If you've done 3 slow ones then chuck in something quicker , and if you've played a few fast ones then slow it down a bit 

One thing I often do is use licks from a different solo which would be in a different key and tempo (or even mode). It's always fun to see if anyone notices that you just played part of Enter Sandman or The Thrill is Gone or whatever for a bar or two

NickBotfield

Just listened to the song, there was about 20 seconds in the outro solo from 4.20 - 4.40 that wasn't just hammering away in the pentatonic, I thought that was interesting.  Could be a good starting point for you too.

snowblind

Think of it as a conversation. Try to convey the sense of how you think the conversation might go in phrases.

LionAquaLooper

Sing an improvised melody while listening to the song.  Then when you come up with something you like - transfer it to the guitar.

BillDL

There's a wee hook in the song that you can latch onto and keep yourself rooted back to while branching off as you build up the solo.  The progression goes from A to G to D then back to A.  Just before it drops to G again for much of the song the bass plays a short run that only comprises a few notes and the guitar replicates it (especially when somebody like Davy Knowles plays the song).  If you have a looper or you use a backing track of the song (there are a few on YouTube), try playing that short run, going off and playing something different, and return to it again - something like a call and response with the run being the call each time - or would it be the response?  I'll have to think about that a bit.  Play that short run up the neck a bit and keep incorporating it in your solo at the most suitable junctures.  This is a common technique, and a progression like this song lends itself very well to it.

Rocker

Thanks guys. I never thought of searching for a backing track - that should be a great help. The riff on the E and A strings could be included in some form, maybe an octave or two higher. Something to work on, thanks again. 

viz

Play the tune. Then embellish the tune a bit. Then do some two-handed tapping. 

PhilW1

Jimi does a nice bit of soloing to this on the Winterland album,

topdog91

What do you mean "the end result is nothing"? It sounds like you simultaneously want something and aren't sure what you want. Also I had a listen to the original, the solos are almost the definition of random pentatonic noodling, and I don't mean that in a bad way, not everything needs to be Under A Glass Moon.

PS I should also do SOTM. Since joining function bands, my focus has been learning songs and my ear and my already shit soloing have gone downhill.

NickBotfield

topdog91 said:

Also I had a listen to the original, the solos are almost the definition of random pentatonic noodling, and I don't mean that in a bad way, not everything needs to be Under A Glass Moon.

You can almost hear the guitarist take one last puff of his cig and think fuck it, I'll just step on the fuzz pedal and see what happens.

fastonebaz

I've spent many happy long hours jamming alot to all manner of random backing tracks on YouTube,  there's loads of thrum in every key mode style etc.   Just get stuck in and after a while your subconscious takes over and you realise you stumbled on some cool lick 

stratman3142

Obviously I have a vested interest in suggestions to participate in the monthly SotM challenges on this forum.

Maybe we should get a view from @digitalkettle because, on average, I think he's the most succesful. But it's the taking part that's fun and educational, rather than the winning (at least that's what I tell myself ). Also, there's a caveat that the solo is the real focus in these challenges, and things might be different in a complete song.

NickBotfield said:

topdog91 said:

Also I had a listen to the original, the solos are almost the definition of random pentatonic noodling, and I don't mean that in a bad way, not everything needs to be Under A Glass Moon.

You can almost hear the guitarist take one last puff of his cig and think fuck it, I'll just step on the fuzz pedal and see what happens.

Yes I had a listen and had a similar thought. The solo works in the context of the song. But it's more of a textural interlude than a stand out solo.

digitalkettle

stratman3142 said:

Obviously I have a vested interest in suggestions to participate in the monthly SotM challenges on this forum.

Maybe we should get a view from @digitalkettle because, on average, I think he's the most succesful. But it's the taking part that's fun and educational, rather than the winning (at least that's what I tell myself ). Also, there's a caveat that the solo is the real focus in these challenges, and things might be different in a complete song.
...

I'm honoured @stratman3142 ...but I'm just a numpty with too much gear and a monthly gig

SotM is great for providing a monthly deadline to do some recording. Sometimes I take two weeks to think about stuff and the backing track becomes part of my practice routine (which is entirely unstructured), sometimes I only get a couple of hours to sweat over a DAW...either way, many takes are involved. If I have loads of time, I really like throwing a backing track together for future SotMs.

When you say "things might be different in a complete song", I agree: I use it as an indulgence for getting stuff out of my system that, on a gig, would earn me a drum stick to the back of the head. Sometimes I have an exercise that I try to integrate in a musical context or a quote from a famous solo that I want to shoehorn in. Sometimes it's a new gadget (must get my FreqOut back on the board).

I don't really have a process: sometimes it's a million takes over a looped backing waiting for ideas to gel, other times I pull the backing into Guitar Pro and write something note-by-note (fairly intensive so it's rare)...or both! I find I can always have a bunch of ideas which can be stimulated by:

• just going for it
• tonez
• imaginary singing
• theoretical stuff
• asking, for example, 'what would The Edge do?' when the backing track is actually a heavy rock thing (positive awkwardness)

When you're having these ideas, you have to be able to record them somehow (audio, notation, etc) because, I find, it's good to walk away for a bit and see if they're any good when you come back to them cold.

Finally, there would be far fewer ideas if I didn't listen widely to music in general, transcribe stuff, learn 'licks', mutate 'licks'.

So, after all that crap above, it's the previous line that one should take notice of...it's always the answer.

CaseOfAce

PhilW1 said:

Jimi does a nice bit of soloing to this on the Winterland album,

I'd never heard the original Traffic version before so had a listen. For me this is all about Winwood's vocal. Love the recorded sound of the track.

PhilW1 - you prompted me to listen to how name guitarists have tackled this tune. Clapton's is pleasant and hints at major pentatonic?, Garcia does his thing on it (they do it a tone down in G - great vocal by Mydland), I'm not particularly keen on the Hendrix instrumental version myself. As someone said Winwood plugged in a fuzz at 1am in the morning and did licks in A minor pentatonic over the A -> G -> D progression. It fits.

To address the original post - how about starting low, and climbing up the neck. Generally tells a story. 
You could also use CAGED and play around the underlying chords at various positions on the neck which breaks you out of the standard A minor pentatonic boxes.

Listening to stuff like this does give you an appreciation for the likes of Angus Young and how he is able to construct a story using minor / blues pentatonics over basic underlying chords (You Shook Me All Night Long for instance). 

flying_pie

Am pentatonic seems a bit strange for me. I haven't listened to anything other than the first 20 seconds of the Traffic version but it's clearly A G D A

I heard it as being A Mixolydian. Am pentatonic will work but misses out on important chord tones such as the C# with the A major chord and B in the G chord which would really help give more melody. A major pentatonic would also work (better?) and so could the good old blues scale 

I looked to the drum tab to see what sort of groove the Winwood version has and quickly recorded some backing last night. There's plenty of scope for different approaches and this could in theory be a great subject matter for SOTM...

Rocker

flying_pie said:

Am pentatonic seems a bit strange for me. I haven't listened to anything other than the first 20 seconds of the Traffic version but it's clearly A G D A

I heard it as being A Mixolydian. Am pentatonic will work but misses out on important chord tones such as the C# with the A major chord and B in the G chord which would really help give more melody. A major pentatonic would also work (better?) and so could the good old blues scale 

I looked to the drum tab to see what sort of groove the Winwood version has and quickly recorded some backing last night. There's plenty of scope for different approaches and this could in theory be a great subject matter for SOTM...

That has been my experience too as I have to step outside the 'box' sometimes to get the note that 'fits' best.  I am pretty much a novice when it comes to discussing modes but whatever it is, if it sounds OK, then it is OK in my world.  Using suggestions from replies to this thread, I have fumbled a few licks that fit.  My problem now is trying to remember them.