What's happened Avalon?

TheMadMick

Does anyone know what happened to Avalon? The website is incomplete and no sign of it developing. Windmill guitars said exciting things were to happen but this doesn't look to exciting to me.

It would be a pity if they disappeared again. A very viable alternative to Lowden.

malcolmkindness

This is just speculation, but considering the number of problems that Avalon have had since their inception, culminating in Steve Mcilwraths disgraceful behaviour, they are probably struggling to find investors. If I had any money, I certainly wouldn't be investing it in acoustic guitar manufacture in N.I.

earwighoney

malcolmkindness said:

This is just speculation, but considering the number of problems that Avalon have had since their inception, culminating in Steve Mcilwraths disgraceful behaviour, they are probably struggling to find investors. If I had any money, I certainly wouldn't be investing it in acoustic guitar manufacture in N.I.

The great sadness about the latter statement is NI has some of the finest guitar makers in Europe, I think that's partly down to having one of the better luthier schools around. 

TheMadMick said:

Does anyone know what happened to Avalon? The website is incomplete and no sign of it developing. Windmill guitars said exciting things were to happen but this doesn't look to exciting to me.

It would be a pity if they disappeared again. A very viable alternative to Lowden.

They have relaunched their website and rearranged their model range. 

They've only updated the performer series, but the other ones will be updated soon I imagine. 

malcolmkindness

I agree there are some great guitar makers in Northern Ireland, but it's very difficult to make the economics stand up.

strtdv

Making high end guitars has to be a difficult job. 

It's a pretty crowded market (I can think of at least 5 Northern Irish acoustic makers and I'm sure there are dozens in England), and not that many people can afford to spend thousands on an acoustic guitar. 

Exporting to America to capitalise on a romanticised notion of "Irishness" seems like a good plan though with Trump in charge you can never know how long that will last.

They are also getting a bit same-y, most of the Northern Irish makers seem to be making variations on a more bulbous sort of mini-jumbo. I hear they can be finicky to record well too 

TheMadMick

malcolmkindness said:

I agree there are some great guitar makers in Northern Ireland, but it's very difficult to make the economics stand up.

Maybe John  has last some of his backers. Conjecture is a wonderful thing. It can go on and on for ever 

Tannin

Funny this should crop up. I've been toying with the idea of an Avalon lately. 

For the most part I play other sounds, but I'd rather like to add an instrument in the Irish tradition, that very rich tone that Lowden is known for, and other makers seem to also do. I think I'd want to go with a custom build (mostly so as to be able to specify my own neck width) and if I'm any guess a custom Lowden would be horribly expensive. But I played a McIllroy once which was lovely, and I hear here that Avalons are similar. 

In the meantime, I have my lovely little Brook, which to my ear is about half-way between the guitars I mostly play and the Lowden sound. Just the same, I think I'll go the whole hog one of these days. 

It would be nice if Avalon is still around when I get to it. I wish them well.

malcolmkindness

According to an article in the Belfast Telegraph yesterday, even Lowden is looking at cost cutting measures, including redundancies,  so I wouldn't hold out much hope for Avalon.

TheMadMick

Maybe it was a god idea to get my final Avalon before the guano hit the rotating member?

WindmillGuitars

Avalon have some exciting new developments coming - panic not @TheMadMick ;
John and the team have been working to update the brand and I believe get some new dealers in place. They have also just hired some new staff to expand the team judging by their social media. 

In the meantime if anyone is looking an Avalon feel free to reach out to me - new or preloved 

TheMadMick

WindmillGuitars said:

Avalon have some exciting new developments coming - panic not @TheMadMick ;
John and the team have been working to update the brand and I believe get some new dealers in place. They have also just hired some new staff to expand the team judging by their social media. 

Panic is not a word I'd use to describe my curiosity. However, I've kept an eye on their website and nothing has changed. That hardly smacks of "exciting new developments". Unless John  has some serious money in hand to get past the changeover, it looks a bit bleak from here.

I really hope I'm wrong. They are amazing guitars. 

LemonSoul

malcolmkindness said:

This is just speculation, but considering the number of problems that Avalon have had since their inception, culminating in Steve Mcilwraths disgraceful behaviour, they are probably struggling to find investors. If I had any money, I certainly wouldn't be investing it in acoustic guitar manufacture in N.I.

Can you expand on this behaviour for the unaware? 

malcolmkindness

LemonSoul said:

malcolmkindness said:

This is just speculation, but considering the number of problems that Avalon have had since their inception, culminating in Steve Mcilwraths disgraceful behaviour, they are probably struggling to find investors. If I had any money, I certainly wouldn't be investing it in acoustic guitar manufacture in N.I.

Can you expand on this behaviour for the unaware? 

He was charged with "upskirting" and possession of child pornography. He eventually admitted the "upskirting" charge, but got off on a technicality due to the offence being committed outside the jurisdiction. He claimed that the child pornography was collected for "research" and I'm not sure if this has been resolved yet, as he is now suffering from that old standby "mental health problems". It's all in the public domain if you want more.

LemonSoul

Ah. Feel sorry for anyone at Avalon who’s impacted by his actions as that for me is a deal-breaker, not a chance I’d buy one now I know that. 

shufflebeat

If you’re put off by industrialists doing morally repugnant things you’re going to have a much simpler, and tech free, life.

malcolmkindness

shufflebeat said:

If you’re put off by industrialists doing morally repugnant things you’re going to have a much simpler, and tech free, life.

This, of course is true. However there is no denying that the company was adversely affected by this, in an already challenging market.

MartinB

As far as I understand, he's been out of the company for a while now, and was on the finance side rather than hands-on building. So you're not supporting him by buying an Avalon, and your older Avalon wasn't designed or built by him. 

But yes, having this conversation every time probably doesn't help their situation. 

Tannin

MartinB said:

As far as I understand, he's been out of the company for a while now, and was on the finance side rather than hands-on building. So you're not supporting him by buying an Avalon, and your older Avalon wasn't designed or built by him. 

But yes, having this conversation every time probably doesn't help their situation. 

People keep bringing it up. Over and over. And over. And over. He is nothing to do with the company and has not been anything to do with the company for ages. Any company can get unlucky with a bad egg no-one suspected working for them. FFS, move on. 

MartinB

Tannin said:

MartinB said:

As far as I understand, he's been out of the company for a while now, and was on the finance side rather than hands-on building. So you're not supporting him by buying an Avalon, and your older Avalon wasn't designed or built by him. 

But yes, having this conversation every time probably doesn't help their situation. 

People keep bringing it up. Over and over. And over. And over. He is nothing to do with the company and has not been anything to do with the company for ages. Any company can get unlucky with a bad egg no-one suspected working for them. FFS, move on. 

Yes, I'm not bringing it up, I'm addressing it after it was brought up, and advocating for moving on by pointing out that the individual hasn't been involved with them for some time, and that support for the current company is not support for him. 

So I don't get why that tone is addressed towards me. 

Tannin

Not addressed towards you at all @MartinB. I agree entirely with you. I was simply agreeing with your remarks and taking then a little further. My apologies if if seemed otherwise. Time to move on from this unpleasantness and celebrate a marque which, by all accounts, has been responsible for some lovely instruments. I hope Avalon survives and prospers. Maybe one day I'll be lucky enough to own one. 

malcolmkindness

The history of Steve Mcilwrath is only one of Avalons problems, as I think I pointed out in my original post. Its quite simple, investors want to make money, and it is very hard to make money manufacturing anything on a large scale in the UK or Ireland nowadays. Even Lowden is struggling. 
McIlroy is a much better business model, two or three craftsmen working hard, producing high quality instruments in small quantities, no need for investors.