Obligatory another "what car should I buy" thread

strtdv

@ttony in my position the obvious thing is an NHS fleet scheme salary sacrifice electric car, I could get something like an Audi Q6 e-tron in S line 50 spec for about £430 a month reduction in take home pay. 

However, call me old fashioned but I don't like the idea of driving a £60k car I don't own, and with the steep depreciation of EVs I can see the fleet company trying to charge for for everything they can when you leave it back. 

I'd rather own it for a couple of years, anticipate £5k per year of depreciation, and know what I'm likely to get when I sell it.

TTony

strtdv said:

However, call me old fashioned but I don't like the idea of driving a £60k car I don't own, and with the steep depreciation of EVs I can see the fleet company trying to charge for for everything they can when you leave it back. 

Totally get that - it’s why I’ve always bought outright (and kept until only worth buttons).

But for something to use for a few years, no intention of keeping, PCP works.  You don’t have to go OTT on the choice; £300/mth could get something perfectly functional, worry-free, and leave a big chunk of your capital untouched …

Roland

At this point in the market, with the life expectancy of many EVs unproven, and an upheaval in car manufacturing, I’d be getting a second hand diesel, and running it until uneconomic. 

nero1701

I'm now also on the look out, I've an M135i, 2014, great wee car, goes like a stabbed rat, I however srtuggle getting in and out of it now!!

I'm looking at 5 year old XC90 Hybrids, all thr toys, pretty reliable, looks pretty

boogieman

strtdv said:

Yes, and the Cupra has heated steering wheel too. 

Both have reversing camera, DSG gearbox, heated seats, powered boot lid/tailgate, 19" alloys, about 25,000 miles, and as far as I know the ubiquitous EA888 engine (albeit in significantly higher power form on the Cupra), and digital dashboard (which works very well from previous experience of a Golf GTD)

The Cupra has a Haldex 4wd system which allows for the sub-5s 0-60 but also needs regular servicing and accounts for most of the 15% difference in real world mpg. 
The A4 does the 0-60 run in just over 7 seconds but will get 42mpg on a motorway cruise, and is obviously cheaper to insure. 
Both fall foul of the luxury vehicle tax.

I previously ran a Mk3 Focus RS, and the main drawback apart from 26mpg fuel economy (bigger engine and permanent 4wd as well as manual gearbox so no 7th gear for cruising) was the fact that there was all this performance available that you rarely got a chance to use for more than about 5 seconds at a time, and I do wonder if the Cupra will feel the same. It might do the Jekyll/Hyde thing better though, the RS was just a hooligan all the time.

The Haldex on the Cupra will only need servicing and attention every 20k miles and it’s not a big job, just a fluid and filter change, so probably around £120-150 ?  The DSG box needs a fluid and filter change every 40k miles, the last time I had our Audi DSG done it was £220 done at an independent garage. 

strtdv

Tried both, went for the Cupra. 
The Audi was more worn than it looked in the photos, and was less comfortable. It also had an assortment of off-brand tyres which wasn't very reassuring, and any of the interior that wasn't leather was a velvet material that looked like it would be a nightmare to maintain with kids in the back. It also weirdly had no more rear legroom than the Cupra.

The Cupra had performance Continentals all round and a boot liner to prevent damage, and had clearly been looked after much better. 

It's very similar to drive to my wife's Ateca in terms of cabin layout, though the driving position is far better, it felt comfortable and familiar straight away. 
It also put a bigger smile on my face with 310 horsepower, I'll live with the slightly worse fuel economy

dazzajl

As long as you’re happy with the outcome, it’s all good and the fact that you still have a car that puts a smile on your face while doing all the practical jobs is a big win. 

boogieman

strtdv said:

Tried both, went for the Cupra. 
The Audi was more worn than it looked in the photos, and was less comfortable. It also had an assortment of off-brand tyres which wasn't very reassuring, and any of the interior that wasn't leather was a velvet material that looked like it would be a nightmare to maintain with kids in the back. It also weirdly had no more rear legroom than the Cupra.

The Cupra had performance Continentals all round and a boot liner to prevent damage, and had clearly been looked after much better. 

It's very similar to drive to my wife's Ateca in terms of cabin layout, though the driving position is far better, it felt comfortable and familiar straight away. 
It also put a bigger smile on my face with 310 horsepower, I'll live with the slightly worse fuel economy

Just a cotton picking minute there boy…. don't you know it’s compulsory to change your mind umpteen times and wait at least 3 years before you actually buy a new car??!!! 

  Congrats. I like the look of the Cupras,  hope you enjoy it. 

strtdv

I'd procrastinate more if I didn't need to have it by Thursday! I'm not really an Audi driver at heart anyway, more of a Skoda type.

The problem with the Skoda (and an awful lot of VAG cars these days) is most are the 1.5 tsi which has a lot of issues with juddering, or the 148 horsepower 2.0 diesel which is a bit underpowered for how heavy cars are these days (a 2015 Superb for instance is faster 0-60 than a 2025 one).

That leaves you the ~190-200 horsepower diesel (rare and relatively expensive), or the 2.0 petrol in 190-204 horsepower (Audi "40", VW Arteon), 245 horsepower (Audi "45" and Golf GTI/Skoda VRS) and 310 horsepower (Golf R/Cupra) versions. 

There's not a lot of real world MPG difference beyond a lot of the 310 versions having 4WD so more drivetrain losses, and they're decently reliable.

I was really stuck by how much I didn't like the Audi though. Part of the problem was the black edition trim, it made the interior look dark and feel cheap compared to the usual S line aluminium trim, but as well as that it should really come with leather seats as standard. The boot was good though obviously, though I think a bit narrower than the Cupra, and apparently only 75 litres bigger. 
I'd expected the boot on the A4 to be bigger, particularly as the rear legroom was no better than the Cupra.

Basically the Audi had enough I disliked relative to the Cupra, and not enough additional practically, for the Cupra to win out.

boogieman

strtdv said:

I'd procrastinate more if I didn't need to have it by Thursday! I'm not really an Audi driver at heart anyway, more of a Skoda type.

The problem with the Skoda (and an awful lot of VAG cars these days) is most are the 1.5 tsi which has a lot of issues with juddering, or the 148 horsepower 2.0 diesel which is a bit underpowered for how heavy cars are these days (a 2015 Superb for instance is faster 0-60 than a 2025 one).

That leaves you the ~190-200 horsepower diesel (rare and relatively expensive), or the 2.0 petrol in 190-204 horsepower (Audi "40", VW Arteon), 245 horsepower (Audi "45" and Golf GTI/Skoda VRS) and 310 horsepower (Golf R/Cupra) versions. 

There's not a lot of real world MPG difference beyond a lot of the 310 versions having 4WD so more drivetrain losses, and they're decently reliable.

I was really stuck by how much I didn't like the Audi though. Part of the problem was the black edition trim, it made the interior look dark and feel cheap compared to the usual S line aluminium trim, but as well as that it should really come with leather seats as standard. The boot was good though obviously, though I think a bit narrower than the Cupra, and apparently only 75 litres bigger. 
I'd expected the boot on the A4 to be bigger, particularly as the rear legroom was no better than the Cupra.

Basically the Audi had enough I disliked relative to the Cupra, and not enough additional practically, for the Cupra to win out.

Our S line Q5 didn’t have leather, it was a combination of suede type stuff (alcantara?) and cloth. I think leather only came as standard on the SQ version, which has a much bigger engine. Audi interior quality is decent and ours wore well but it never felt that premium or luxurious. The seats were too firm on a long run, they had a really high side bolster that meant you couldn’t move about very much, so I’d always end up with aching arse cheeks on a long journey. 

KrisGee

Skoda superb mk3 2l diesel, 60-65mpg, huge interior and boot, all toys you need and few grand spare still in your pocket. Great, sharp looks too if it matters. 

Snap

Have to say I don't really give mpg any thought, small margins of difference. I'd be more interested in how well the car feels to me, rather than if it is a few MPG better or worse than anything else. 

Snap

snowblind said:

Snap said:

Thought about a BMW X3? 

The budget would get op an X5. There's a world of difference between the two, not least the amount of space in the back. You just get more car for your money with the 5 series vs the 3 series. Not saying the 3s are bad. They can be cracking motors but you notice the step up going to a 5. And fwiw I have an X5 3.0d (2014) and it is quicker off the mark than my old V8 535i, probably because it has a thumping great turbocharger strapped to it. For a big bus the X5 handles remarkably well. Much more comparable to your average saloon than a lot of SUVs. I recommend the versions with the active suspension but if you don't have that and it feels a bit like a jelly on springs then a pair of Sachs shocks will fix that right up.

I've had 3 X6s from new over the years, really liked every one of them, particularly the M50. That was a beast of a thing. 

Adey

Snap said:

Have to say I don't really give mpg any thought, small margins of difference. I'd be more interested in how well the car feels to me, rather than if it is a few MPG better or worse than anything else. 

I loved my Alfa166 3.0 V6 24v, but 26mpg was not great.

strtdv

I'm picking up the Cupra tomorrow. 

I don't mind the mpg if the fuel tank is appropriately sized, what used to annoy me was getting 250-270 miles to a tank on the RS, at least the Cupra has a 55 litre tank so should get more like 400-420 miles to the tank. 

The combination of the EA888 engine, 7 speed DSG and Haldex 4WD system makes it feel fast for anything under 3 digits. My Focus never felt as fast despite having 45 horsepower more because the manual gearbox could never keep up, even with the flatshifter between 1st and 2nd (it would do 60mph in second so the flatshifter was there to flatter the 0-60 time). The Focus was terrible if you were caught off boost as well, you used to have to drop a couple of gears if you were on the motorway and wanted to overtake quickly. 
The DSG eliminates all that and the power is there almost immediately. 


I had a BMW previously, very comfy and excellent i-drive system but fancied something different. When I next go for an impractical car though the latest M240i xdrive would be a serious contender. 

FX_Munkee

Adey said:

Snap said:

Have to say I don't really give mpg any thought, small margins of difference. I'd be more interested in how well the car feels to me, rather than if it is a few MPG better or worse than anything else. 

I loved my Alfa166 3.0 V6 24v, but 26mpg was not great.

The mpg was the last thing I worried about on my 159. It was theoretical a lot of the time.

goldtop

FX_Munkee said:

Adey said:

Snap said:

Have to say I don't really give mpg any thought, small margins of difference. I'd be more interested in how well the car feels to me, rather than if it is a few MPG better or worse than anything else. 

I loved my Alfa166 3.0 V6 24v, but 26mpg was not great.

The mpg was the last thing I worried about on my 159. It was theoretical a lot of the time.

+1. I've had my 3.0 24V Busso rebuilt, and it was eye-wateringly spendy. MPG is now laughably irrelevant.

strtdv

I picked it up on Wednesday and have a couple of hundred miles on it now

The good: 
-Very comfortable (the adjustable dampers have just the range you'd want in a car that wants to be both performance focused and family focused), good legroom front and rear, decent boot, lots of tech (blind spot indicators in particular are very clever, using the mood lighting strip). Heated steering wheel is also great. 

-The sports seats are great, and the quality of the interior is a definite step up from our 2018 Ateca

-Plenty quick, certainly while staying within 2 figures, steering is nicely weighted, handling is pretty neutral with the 4WD system in sport. The turning circle is pretty decent too given the wide tyres etc

-Being able to change the drive mode from "individual" which I have set up with comfortable suspension, relaxed throttle response and sport steering feel to full aggression "Cupra" mode for overtakes with a single press of the steering wheel button is a great idea

-Reasonable fuel economy. I'm getting 35mpg on my commute, I was getting 38-39 in my wife's car which is a 1.4 Seat Ateca with less than half the power and front wheel drive. The fuel tank gives a sensible 400 mile range


The bad: 
-Setting up the infotainment system so you don't have to go swiping through multiple menus while driving takes some time, and if you realise you need to access a rarely used menu for a function you're better off parking up somewhere to do it

-Very little sense of speed as you're relatively high off the road, and while it's undoubtedly quick and grippy you feel quite distant from it all, it's much less involving to drive than either the MX-5 or Focus RS was (though in fairness I wanted something a little more relaxed to commute in)

-Fake engine noise through the speakers is contrived and unconvincing, and occasionally makes random pops/crackles which are clearly glitches rather than intentional

-Could be more "fun" focused. The RS felt more rear driven and had drift mode and physical boost gauges etc (even though the interior was far more "cheap & nasty" than the Cupra). This feels quick and comfortable but a little serious when actually you want it to be more of a hooligan



Overall I'm very happy, though I'll probably get another Mk1 MX-5 as a summer roundabout for more driver involvement.

I see they're bringing the VZ5 version to the UK in the facelift Formentor which has the 400 horsepower 2.5 5 cylinder from an RS3, I imagine that would be a seriously quick car and probably a bit more character than the "Golf R on stilts" that mine is