What do you think of dealers asking “how much do you want?” when trying to sell/px with them?

hassleham

So you’re looking to sell or PX a guitar with a dealer, and they ask you “how much do you want”.. 

Does this raise a red flag for anyone else? 

1. I feel like if I give the dealer “my number” i’m just setting myself up for them to knock down my number to a lower number regardless of whether or not the amount i’m asking is already reasonable.

2. If i’m wrong about what the instrument is worth in the current climate, maybe my number will be lower than the dealer is expecting and then they will bite my hand off and cash in on my lack of knowledge about the instrument i’m selling.

I would expect the dealer to know (or find out) what the instrument is worth and then make an offer on it based on their costs what they would sell it for. 

IMO it’s shady if they want you to give them a number first.

Some dealers such as SUYG, richtone and andertons don’t do this. And you can even go back to their initial offer and say “i would like a bit more because of reasons X/Y/Z” and they’re happy to work with you a bit sometimes.

Happy to be persuaded i’m wrong but thought i would see what others thought.

Whitecat

I would assume they are trying to determine a) whether you actually know what you have and b) whether your number is reasonable enough for them to pursue a deal. If you give a sky-high valuation they might think it’s not worth their time because even a fair counter offer might feel like a lowball. 

The first reason above is shadier of course - old lady comes in with an all-original 62 Strat and wants a grand… well, the worst among them will probably bite her hand off in the form of “well, ok, I GUESS I can stretch to that”…

Sporky

I had this with some furniture - the dealer had dome spiel about not being the buyer and the seller. Smelled fishy and I didn't carry on. 

thecolourbox

It's been a long time since i tried to trade anything in at a shop, for the same sort of reasons really. I'm pretty sure i just answered "well as much as possible obviously, you tell me". 

I find shop keepers enjoy being annoyed at customers for not having a detailed understanding of the musical instrument industry, and assume they know everything whilst the customer knows nothing. I've had two instances of being enticed over the phone to bring stuff in to discuss a part ex, only to be laughed at and offered peanuts because it's not worth their time. But then they didn't consider my time in driving over there and being mocked. 

I don't have very good shops near me though

Philly_Q

I don't think it's shady exactly, I think it's old-fashioned hard-headed business practice.  Not "nice", but not dishonest either.

I agree with your point 1 that no matter what you say, they'll offer less.  On point 2, I think they'd still offer less than whatever you said - unless you are indeed asking £1,000 for a 1962 Strat, in which case I'd like to think they'd be a bit more honest.  But I assume you're talking about "ordinary" gear rather than anything vintage, where we're talking variation of hundreds, not tens of thousands of pounds.

Personally I would much rather work with a dealer who just made me an initial offer, because my natural tendency would always be to lowball, and I have absolutely no idea about market values.

One thing's for sure, they'll have a better idea of what it will sell for than you will, and they'll know the maximum amount they'll want to pay in order to make a profit.  If they can get it for less than that, it's more profit to them so of course they'll offer a lower amount.

stickyfiddle

I just tell them what I want, or if on consignment, what I'd like to achieve and my minimum, ideally based on realistic market assumptions.

If that doesn't work for them then I'm happy to walk. I don't think there's any other sensible option. You can give a smidge of padding but I can't be bothered with the charade personally. 

Tannin

No two ways about it, it is sleazy.

Not an out-and-out red flag, you might still choose to deal with this low-lifer, but if you do be careful and count your change.  The "How much do you want?" gambit is a tactic aimed at paying less than the item is worth. So you already know they are not nice people to deal with. Not quite a red flag but close. Call it an orange flag.

If you know another dealer who is better to deal with, go to the other dealer instead. 

Philly_Q

Consignment's a better option if you're not in a hurry, because it's in both your interests to get the best possible price.

joeW

I have no issue with it at all - at the end of the day you are selling to them.  So what’s your price.   Personally id go in at the level I care at - explaining why it’s sensible - and if that’s too high I thank them for their time and walk.  It’s just trading a guitar not an arms deal.  

Moe_Zambeek

Someone once said if you’re not embarrassed with your offer (to sell or buy) you’re not trying hard enough. 

It’s just part of the process. You have an idea what you want, bump it up a bit and see what they say, or just say ‘don’t know, what would you offer?’.

Almost no one in these scenarios has something worth a fortune that they’re not aware of or can’t check selling prices for on the internet.

maltingsaudio

Try part ex ing a car! 

I don’t have a problem with this at all, saves a lot of time . I think we forget that the guitar may be the holy grail to us, but it’s just another guitar to a dealer. And they have absolutely no obligation to  offer a part ex.

We may have an encyclopaedic knowledge of what a guitars worth, their knowledge is what it will actually sell for. 

DrCornelius

I went to a garage once that exclusively sold Toyotas and VWs.  My wife had an MR2 which I drove there and asked what they would give me for it against a new convertible Beetle on the forecourt .  They asked how much I wanted tor the car and I said if i pay the sticker price for the beetle , what could they offer me bearing in mind they will sell the MR2 themselves so have a far better idea of what it was worth.

This went on for 10 minutes until I got the hump and asked the salesman if he was on work experience and could he fetch an adult .

Long story short I sold the mr2 privately and bought a VW elsewhere .  I’m guessing though enough people in these situations get manipulated to make it worth the dealers while to go through the charade and lose the customers that won’t fall for it - they can’t be stupid so it must work on balance ?

Dan_Halen

Nah, sod that. If you're going to buy it, make your offer is how it should work. If you 'say what you want for it' you're either going in with what you think is a fair price for you before they suck on their teeth, start grimacing and making patronising comments about the state of the market and start trying to knock you down... or you go too low because you feel the need to entice them and sell yourself short.

I absolutely hate the whole haggling thing and it generally makes me so uncomfortable. I wouldn't call it a red flag as such in the sense that they're not really doing anything wrong, I'd just not get involved. Always happy for a straight up offer/counter offer as everyone knows where they stand, but the whole used car dealer thing and all the old tricks make my skin crawl. Appreciate this is a me and my issues thing though, and others love all that stuff, but we're all different.

Open_G

It definitely seems like a tactic that’s aimed at getting the best price for the dealer, but I’m trying to see the other side a bit. How much do you want for it? Could be the best way of establishing something like “right I don’t really want this guitar in my stock, but if they are after x amount I’ll have it. But I’m not really that interested so I’m not going to offer them y amount”

topdog91

Open_G said:

It definitely seems like a tactic that’s aimed at getting the best price for the dealer, but I’m trying to see the other side a bit. How much do you want for it? Could be the best way of establishing something like “right I don’t really want this guitar in my stock, but if they are after x amount I’ll have it. But I’m not really that interested so I’m not going to offer them y amount”

Which can be achieved simply by making the desired offer.

maltingsaudio

topdog91 said:

Open_G said:

It definitely seems like a tactic that’s aimed at getting the best price for the dealer, but I’m trying to see the other side a bit. How much do you want for it? Could be the best way of establishing something like “right I don’t really want this guitar in my stock, but if they are after x amount I’ll have it. But I’m not really that interested so I’m not going to offer them y amount”

Which can be achieved simply by making the desired offer.

Often accompanied by an offensive expletive or  punch in the face from the customer!

TTony

Tannin said:

No two ways about it, it is sleazy.

Not an out-and-out red flag, you might still choose to deal with this low-lifer, but if you do be careful and count your change. 

Really?

I don't see it that way at all.

You walk into a shop to buy something, it has a price sticker on it - you know how much the seller wants.
You walk into a shop to sell something, you should have a "price sticker" on whatever it is you want to sell, surely?

If the thing you want to buy has a price sticker on it that's 2x the price you want to pay, or can afford, you don't waste your time trying to negotiate the price down to your budget.
If the thing you want to sell has a price sticker on it that's 2x the price the dealer wants to pay, or is realistic for them, then they won't want to waste their time trying to negotiate you down.

They need to know what your expectation is, and unless they ask you, they're not going to know.

EricTheWeary

Having changed car recently (masterclass available for forum members who are struggling...) this seemed a standard question, I've no problem with it. These days it's easy enough to get some sense of value before you walk in anywhere. 

AK99

hassleham said:

So you’re looking to sell or PX a guitar with a dealer, and they ask you “how much do you want”.. 

 Resp:
- Not entirely sure tbh, you're the professional here. What do you think it's worth from on your side ?

It's a conversation starter. If you're not comfortable having those type of conversations - then maybe not the best kind of buyer for you to be dealing with perhaps.

Lewy

It's always best to just know what price you're looking for and say that. Otherwise aren't you just chancing your arm that you might get more the way you don't think the dealer ought to in order to pay less?

Or if you don;t know and the question bothers you, you could always start the conversation not by trying to sell the guitar but by asking very politely if they wouldn't mind offering you a view on how much they think it's worth? 

gumbothewiddler

It’s not as bad as dealers asking how much you paid for something in the first place. I’ve experienced that in the past, which I usually follow with polite ‘none of your business’.