Guitar-friendly keys and sax players

Jonathangus

As I'm currently the lone guitar player in the band, our singer is adding a bit of alto sax here and there for some added texture and to fill things out a bit.  When she transposes for the sax, it puts her in key signatures with loads of sharps or flats.

Hypothetically, if the bassist and I were to tune down to Eb, would this make her life easier?

Jalapeno

Eb tuning might help provided you kept the same chord sahes.   Try it !

Most of the stuff I play with Saxes is in C,F or Bb - irrespective of Tenor / Alto.

LPManic

Use a capo on the first fret and stick to A.

joeW

It would help if you need open strings for your part.   Otherwise transpose the lot.  I’m rarely out of Bb, Eb or Ab. 

Dan_Halen

I wouldn't and Eb isn't much better for them if other keys are a struggle. I play both sax and guitar in bands and having to play in 'guitar' keys like E or B is just par for the course if you're gigging pop songs. If you learn the parts (preferably by ear with maybe some crib sheets) the key becomes irrelevant - it's just patterns under the fingers. Lots of sharps or flats is only going to be confusing if you're reading a part from a chart that you're unfamiliar with... but if you're unfamiliar with it then it's probably not going to sound great anyway. They'll be doing themselves a favour long term getting more comfortable in these keys. Maybe simplify the parts or just add key bits rather than try to score out the whole track?

Roland

Jonathangus said: if the bassist and I were to tune down to Eb, would this make her life easier?

It will give you both a low Eb, but that’s about all. The key (pun intended) to solving this is for you to play barred and partial chords further up the neck. 

fretmeister

I did about a decade in a big band. Almost everything was in flat keys. I never tuned my bass for anything other than E standard.
The usual approach is to play an E-flat an octave up or use a 5 string.

The issue is that either you or the sax player has to adjust - and if the sax is only on a few songs then it really should be the sax player learning the parts in the right key rather than change everything for everyone else.

Stuckfast

By far the most important thing is to do the songs in the right key for the singer. How the instrumentalists deal with that is up to them.

Jonathangus

Yeah, the idea was to play the same parts but they'd just sound a semitone lower.  Wondered whether that would put it in nicer keys for the sax.   I think we'll stick with things as they are.  Thanks, chaps!

guitars4you

My dad was a sax player - He hated playing with guitar players in A/E/G as it put him in key signatures, as you say above, with loads of sharps or flats - B flat is common and F for many sax players 

stratcat

Horns favour flat keys, stings favour sharp keys. As a guitarist I've got used to playing in flat keys and as a brass player I've got use to playing in sharp keys. It just goes with the territory. 

GuyBoden

For Jazz see below, I've found that these are the most common (Major) keys. I've practiced them for more than 30 years.

D, G, C, F, Bb, Eb, Ab 

I practice with Jazz phrases in a single key as a warmup everyday (For more than 30 years). A different key everyday. (I never play scales, only phrases)

To make it less work, I convert minor keys to their relative Major key.

So today, I'm practising Bb Major Jazz phrases as a warmup.  

Stratavarious

The key is primarily fixed by the singer’s range.

The bands I’ve played with with horns sections have not been stuck on flat keys though,  a lot are in D or G with one big band lineup.

merlin

My really crass suggestion is to learn to play in every key. When I was in college (on sax) we learnt pretty much everything in every key. Running scales in all the keys came straight after long notes. 

Blueingreen

Jonathangus said:

As I'm currently the lone guitar player in the band, our singer is adding a bit of alto sax here and there for some added texture and to fill things out a bit.  When she transposes for the sax, it puts her in key signatures with loads of sharps or flats.

Hypothetically, if the bassist and I were to tune down to Eb, would this make her life easier?

Are you playing covers, and if so what era of music are you playing?

If you go back to the time when popular music heavily featured horns, material was typically written in keys that suited horn players -  especially Bb, F , C.  Guitarists were expected to adapt.

Later, more guitar dominated and rock influenced popular music tend to be written and recorded in keys that suited guitar.  If horns were added to the mix, they had to adapt.

I'd say you should follow that pattern: if you're playing music written in keys to suit guitar, your horn player should adapt.

CaseOfAce

Stuckfast said:

By far the most important thing is to do the songs in the right key for the singer. How the instrumentalists deal with that is up to them.

Stratavarious said:

The key is primarily fixed by the singer’s range.

The bands I’ve played with with horns sections have not been stuck on flat keys though,  a lot are in D or G with one big band lineup.

This has been brought home to me in a major way recently.
I've been selecting and learning songs for a blues rock trio in which I'm singing and playing bass.
I've become incredible flexible on changing keys to suit my voice... sometimes the version the guitarist suggests is out of my range and a no go  (e.g. Rory Gallagher's Messin' With The Kid in E - no thank you ... I'll do that in B please just like the Blues Brothers version).

Where it gets tricky is if the riff features open strings - in which case it's either tune down to Eb and try and make it work with the vocalist or transpose anyway and try and make the riff work without the open strings.

So my answer to the OP is lead vocals first before anything else and then deal with the resultant key instrumentally as best you can.

Previously as the guitarist in my pub / function band I loathed changing keys cos it meant I couldn't play along to the record to learn the song but my mindset is certainly a bit different these days. And besides it'll make you a better musician!

GuyBoden

Ask the Sax to play in B Major. And, see how they get on.