Modal relative minors

viz

Evo said:

I've always disliked the whole "relative major/minor" relationship.

By far the most common way it's used is "I can play in E minor over G major" or vice versa, which is one of the main contributing factors to confusion over the concept of modes in my experience. 

Well, the relative major / minor is used all the time in modulations in classical music. 

But yes, the most important thing about a modal sound is its specific note intervals. Dorian sounds Dorian. That's the point of it. Absolute modes rule. Relative modes are interesting from a framework pov.

Evo

Roland said:

From my perspective, modes are a distraction. What we’re looking for are the notes which add colour to a piece of music. They are usually the less usual notes. We can invent scales or modes which contain them, but those concepts can trap us into staying within that scale or mode. They can cause us to think “I’m changing mode” whereas what we’re actually doing is choosing a different note for colour. 

I agree with this concept, generally the whole concept of a key becomes fluid when you're dealing with improvising or writing spontaneously. However, when you're playing something predetermined then you aren't choosing anything, you're playing a set thing which can be analysed and described appropriately. In this case, using modal terminology.

What you're talking about IS modes, you just aren't calling it that.

Evo

viz said:

Evo said:

I've always disliked the whole "relative major/minor" relationship.

By far the most common way it's used is "I can play in E minor over G major" or vice versa, which is one of the main contributing factors to confusion over the concept of modes in my experience. 

Well, the relative major / minor is used all the time in modulations in classical music. 

But yes, the most important thing about a modal sound is its specific note intervals. Dorian sounds Dorian. That's the point of it. Absolute modes rule. Relative modes are interesting from a framework pov.

You're right about the classical approach, that kind of thing is all over the place. I should have qualified with "the most common way guitarists use..." 

But then again, classical guitarists....

But then again, are THEY using it? or did the original composer use it and they're just playing it? There certainly aren't that many classical guitarists writing their own stuff these days, I doubt they'd outnumber folks using it as an improv shortcut. 

I'll shut up now, i'm rambling again. 

viz

Yeah I guess you could say the guitarist isn’t “using” it per se, maybe that’s a bit like the reader of a book isn’t using the plot? Maybe?

GuyBoden

There are many Modal musical theories and endless forum discussions, but the most indepth theory, that I liked best, was "Modal Jazz Composition and Harmony by Ron Miller". I spent a few years studying this book with a good teacher.

Each Mode has a Key Note.