Writing Lyrics

monquixote

I'm sure there must be a thread for this, but anyone got tips for writing lyrics?

I write stacks of music, but I don't write songs. Through writing some instrumental music I think I've now got a bit stronger at writing melodies, but I suck at lyrics and I'm a fairly poor singer.

I've discovered Synth V which now lets me add reasonably convincing vocals in my songs and managed to write one song I consider is passable because I lucked into a subject to write about which seemed to flow nicely.

Everyone always recommends the "Object Writing" approach, but I've never found it to click with me.
I read "Write one song" which was better, but still didn't fix it.

Any tips, books to read general commiserations about how hard it is?

Leisceoir

Try to write for five minutes every day just after you wake up, when your brain is still half asleep and is making odd illogical connections. Don’t think about what you’re writing. Have a notebook and pen beside your bed. Don’t look at what you’ve written the day before, just write new stuff. After a month or two look back at what you’ve written, it should be long enough that you can’t remember it and it seems like someone else wrote it. See if you like the sound of any phrases. Take the ones you like and leave the rest. If it works keep going. 

thecolourbox

I think writing lyrics can be hard even if you're good at it to be honest. I don't claim to be amazing at it, but I think I'm ok in that it's one of the few bits of my music writing I actually properly like when I listen back. Maybe others who've listened to my Composition Challenge entries will be laughing at me thinking I'm ok at it, who knows But i do produce a whole lot of absolute rubbish which doesn't make it past my brainstorming stages. I have a google drive document where i scribble stuff down then delete the bits which are rubbish - sometimes it's in draft song form, but mostly just the odd lines here and there which come out of something else but i like the lines. They then pop up later on, often years down the line, when I'm stuck for words to a new tune.

So sometimes I do write them along with the tune, while I'm improvising it or whatever, or like the main title or hook phrase will have a tune put to it, but mostly I fit words to a tune after the fact. There have been songs that were completely different lyrically, just to get the tune and chords together, then I just rewrite the words once i've got the rhythm.

This isn't much advice though. Apart from to say take the pressure off writing lyrics for a specific tune, and just gather together words, phrases, thoughts you have during the day, and keep them to hand. They might fit in somewhere later on and off you go. Trying to use all parts of your brain at once to write a tune, harmony, and words is extreme multitasking

thecolourbox

Leisceoir said:

Try to write for five minutes every day just after you wake up, when your brain is still half asleep and is making odd illogical connections. Don’t think about what you’re writing. Have a notebook and pen beside your bed. Don’t look at what you’ve written the day before, just write new stuff. After a month or two look back at what you’ve written, it should be long enough that you can’t remember it and it seems like someone else wrote it. See if you like the sound of any phrases. Take the ones you like and leave the rest. If it works keep going. 

Ahh yes sleepy head writing is definitely a thing! I often jot stuff down in the middle of the night. Often it's rubbish and not suitable for a song, but it gets the cogs going.

My most recent one was when I awoke from a dream where I had been arguing with the reform politician who unfortunately shares my name, about his new book "Suicide of a nation" (which incidentally would make an excellent song title). My counter argument that my subconscious invented, was that my book "Juice-ide of a Nation" about the downfall of Ribena squash since the change to sweeteners in Spring 2018 had sold more than his, and mattered more to the average person than his nonsense. So when I awoke i scribbled down Juice-cide of a nation, watered down, sweetener poisoning us, copies of originals, etc. They would make awful lyrics, but the principles of that written in softer less cordial/beverage specific language could be useful

monquixote

Leisceoir said:

Try to write for five minutes every day just after you wake up, when your brain is still half asleep and is making odd illogical connections. Don’t think about what you’re writing. Have a notebook and pen beside your bed. Don’t look at what you’ve written the day before, just write new stuff. After a month or two look back at what you’ve written, it should be long enough that you can’t remember it and it seems like someone else wrote it. See if you like the sound of any phrases. Take the ones you like and leave the rest. If it works keep going. 

That's a good tip although I'm usually mired in dealing with kids for the first hour after I get up. 

I did notice last night just before I was going to bed my brain suddenly started humming with words and ideas. I wrote a couple of things down, but the creativity was not there when I came back to it the next day.

thecolourbox

Writing absolute drivel can actually help establish a meter and rhyme structure etc. Like Yesterday originally being "Scrambled eggs, oh my baby how I love your legs, but not as much as I love scrambled eggs. Oh we should eat, some scrambled eggs".

I tried doing my own food based one and it did lead to a song but it wasn't one which made the cut for me. If anything, the silly words worked better as a joke xmas song than the pretentious version did as a normal song...

I'm a pig without a blanket,
I'm a sosig who is bare
Potatoes choked and the turkey choked
'bout my bits out in the air

I'm a banger without a jacket,
Although perhaps I'm not a
Pig without a blanket,
I'm a flippin Chipolata

monquixote

thecolourbox said:

I think writing lyrics can be hard even if you're good at it to be honest. I don't claim to be amazing at it, but I think I'm ok in that it's one of the few bits of my music writing I actually properly like when I listen back. Maybe others who've listened to my Composition Challenge entries will be laughing at me thinking I'm ok at it, who knows But i do produce a whole lot of absolute rubbish which doesn't make it past my brainstorming stages. I have a google drive document where i scribble stuff down then delete the bits which are rubbish - sometimes it's in draft song form, but mostly just the odd lines here and there which come out of something else but i like the lines. They then pop up later on, often years down the line, when I'm stuck for words to a new tune.

So sometimes I do write them along with the tune, while I'm improvising it or whatever, or like the main title or hook phrase will have a tune put to it, but mostly I fit words to a tune after the fact. There have been songs that were completely different lyrically, just to get the tune and chords together, then I just rewrite the words once i've got the rhythm.

This isn't much advice though. Apart from to say take the pressure off writing lyrics for a specific tune, and just gather together words, phrases, thoughts you have during the day, and keep them to hand. They might fit in somewhere later on and off you go. Trying to use all parts of your brain at once to write a tune, harmony, and words is extreme multitasking

I've got to the point that I can write melodies where I'm like "Ooo I like how that note works against the chords", but I tend to just use whatever phrase comes into my head which is naturally just super cliche and then I get completely stuck on those words and find it very hard to move away from them.

I was in the lucky position of being in a band with a very accomplished poet and it made writing songs and absolute pleasure.

monquixote

thecolourbox said:

Writing absolute drivel can actually help establish a meter and rhyme structure etc. Like Yesterday originally being "Scrambled eggs, oh my baby how I love your legs, but not as much as I love scrambled eggs. Oh we should eat, some scrambled eggs".

I tried doing my own food based one and it did lead to a song but it wasn't one which made the cut for me. If anything, the silly words worked better as a joke xmas song than the pretentious version did as a normal song...

I'm a pig without a blanket,
I'm a sosig who is bare
Potatoes choked and the turkey choked
'bout my bits out in the air

I'm a banger without a jacket,
Although perhaps I'm not a
Pig without a blanket,
I'm a flippin Chipolata

The guy I mentioned who was a great lyricist used to do this. 

In one case he randomly picked up a book on ornithology and sung random lines. 
It ended up morphing into a song about do birds know that they used to be dinosaurs and do they secretly plot for the day they will once again be the dominant creatures.

thecolourbox

You do have to learn to let things go sometimes, not let them always be tied to a specific melody or vice versa. Maybe think of your words like you do your chord sequences or melodies. They don't have to make sense, but if you think like....I want this line to turn dark, or happy, or repetitive, or whatever. Think of what words make you feel those things and you'll come up with something that is on theme. Doesnt need to make sense, even some of my more coherent songs are probably at least one third vague washes of words that just sounded nice together

Habanero

I probably enjoy writing the lyrics the most, and often don't really know where they come from. The most recent started as a chorus whilst walking back from a medical appointment and thinking about something I'd seen on the news the night before.

I've currently got 13 complete lyrics, that musically only have a genre or sound-like associated with them. I've been working on one called 'Sound of the Banshee' for a few weeks, that's supposed to sound sort of 80s hair metal-like. All I've got so far is some drum patterns, a few bass patterns and some unrecorded guitar riffs. It's not going well.

Stratavarious

Chat GPT will churn out abysmal cheese with the odd nugget that might help.

suno too

monquixote

Stratavarious said:

Chat GPT will churn out abysmal cheese with the odd nugget that might help.

suno too

I've been trying Gemini and generally it's pretty terrible, but it can be good for suggesting rhymes etc.

thecolourbox

https://www.rhymezone.com/ is a good website, likewise any thesaurus site is good

fastonebaz

Think of a theme for the song,  around a catchphrase,  then write the lyrics to fit.

That's what acdc did for 50 years

Stratavarious

thecolourbox said:

https://www.rhymezone.com/ is a good website, likewise any thesaurus site is good

Yep and you can get rhymes, near rhymes, antonyms for contrast words or syllable count 

Rocker

A lot of great songs tell a story so try something similar. The end result is usually far removed from the original but that is the way it is. 

fretmeister

I always write lyrics at the same time as playing so the hands and mouth are synced.

I often start by just humming along to work on vocal melodies, and then without forcing it a word will just happen to fit the melody and rhythmic structure. Sometimes the word gives an idea for the subject, and sometimes it’s just a nonsense / placeholding passing word. But as the process continues more words fall into place. Often random but they make the structure work.

Once the structure works then I break out a proper Rhyming Dictionary (one that actually does it via phonetics and not spelling) and look for interesting words that rhyme with my random ones and start discovering the subject of the song.

I usually end up with about 20 verses and then mix and match lines that work together and end up with 3-5 verses depending on what length I want and what is needed for the story.

Works for me!

monquixote

This is the one song I have managed to write and be vaguely happy with the lyrics:

Jfingers

A musician/artist I like a great deal, Jim White talks of always having a means to take notes wherever he may be. He's an avid collector of unusual phrases used in conversation, be that one to one or overheard.

I've used that a few times and been happy with the results.

My local village pub in the 90's had an interesting crowd and I had many friends and acquaintances from 18 or so to well over 70 ( I was in my 20's).

One of these was a friend's Dad in his mid 70's. I was sitting at the bar with him and we were sharing a few sob stories about current events in our lives. He said "Well J, all these things help to fill up a lifetime"

I borrowed a pen from behind the bar and scribbled it down. A version of that line is featured in one of my favourite songs that I've written.

I write most days, on paper, in a notes app on my phone and in notepad files on my laptop. Sometimes one line and sometimes many more, also song titles or just loose concepts. I've just had a look at a folder on my desktop started on March 25th 2024 and there are 2124 files in it. That's going to need a bit of compiling and editing!

PolarityMan

For most bands the lyrics don't have to be great or even make any sense. It's more about the flow, rhythm and melody.

koneguitarist

I think all of us have doubts about our writing, I certainly do 
it’s interesting how Deep Purple changed their writing style when Coverdale took over from Gillan. They used to jam a tune, then ask Gillan to write words to it, Coverdale seem to write a song, then Band would flesh it out. I think it must be so much harder to write lyrics to music as opposed to music to lyrics. 

No right or wrong way, whatever works for you.