The state of modern youth music

guitarfishbay

octatonic said:

stickyfiddle said:

How do people find new music that isn't shite?

Spotify 'Related Artists'.

Or if you don't have Spotify you can go to Amazon/other and look for the customers also bought section.

There is no shortage of great music being written all the time, but don't expect a gym or even the top 40 chart to find it for you because that isn't necessarily how it works.  Gyms want stuff that is simple and people can exercise to, the top 40 chart is full of stuff that sells in large numbers to the kind of people who buy singles/albums the moment they're released.

Myranda

Last FM is good too...

Though apparently Katie Perry is like The Donnas - I suspect what they've done there is thought "Hmm... The Donnas, we haven't bothered to listen to them, so presumably the only thing we can say is they own vaginas.... who also ones one or more?"

While I'm not a fan of the modern musical scene it would be fair to say I'm not really a fan of most musical scenes. I don't like Disco just as much as I don't like whatever the predominant music scene is now. 

I even like some stuff in some places - for instance at the gym or wanting to dance goa/psy trance is brilliant for keeping a rythm and all that... but I don't want to listen to it at work.

I like some Jazz - but leave a jazz collection CD on and chances are my brain will try and eat itself.

Some of the tripe from yesteryear is no worse than today's tripe. So I suspect Emp, you're just getting older.

ESBlonde

For me the things I don't like are the fake West Indian accents and the poor standard of rapping about misogyny and faux violence or the need to include it in a formulaic way.  Add to that the lazy habit of stealing someone else's hook riff or line and basing a poor content over it. It's not creative, it's not big or clever (well it is big in that it has some commercial success but not like in the past).

Remember when we all got excited about modern digital recording being affordable and accessible, well it didn't pan out like the dream.

There have always been lots of 'commercial' productions even at the turn of the previous century when sheet music sales ruled (and how many of those big hits do we recall and relish) through the 20s gramephone era and talkie hollywood movies of the 30s. 

I remember the charts of the early 70s being largely crap with the Bay city Rollers, David Cassidy, Jimmy Osmond, Lt. Pigeon, Paper lace, Stephanie De Sykes?

I think stars on 45 has a lot to answer for.

I do hear some modern music that I like but my teenage boys always want KISS FM in the car (Err, no thanks) but Carlo Emerald, Bruno Mars and others are doing some stirling work.

musicegbdf

OK , my thoughts. Having been involved in the music scene since the early 70's , and with a daughter heavily involved (aged 20) I have some thoughts of what is out there.
There was always rubbish music. The last 70's to mid 80's was the worst period of time , when Disco type of music took over.
There is a lot of industry produced stuff coming out of the sausage machine.  Why is that ? Because people buy it... So are the artists "selling out" ?( As we all know many of the artists are actually much greater talents than their images give credit for. ) Well it is an industry , and if they are professionals they are trying to make a living.

So is there talent out there... my personal experience there is bucket loads. When I talk to my daughters friends they actually have a great ecletic taste . My daughter is a big Jimi and Led Zep fan... I also see how much they work at it and I am inspired that we are passing the baton on to a great new generation who will take it to the next level.

Be honest the quality at semi pro level is far higher than 25 years ago and the same is true at the pro level.

So is it the nasty music industry holding it back? No it is the buying public .

As an example my daughter a 6 tracks full produced and under negotiation now to get the money to get more produced .  Her producer sent me the tracks and asked my opinion. One is a very creative ballad lasting over 6 minutes , one is a brilliant "rock" song , and there are two , what I would call "commercial" songs . These commercial songs have great hooks and pass the "old grey whistle test". I have played all of them to around 30 people (friends and family) and the non Muso's all love the commercial sounded ones . The Muso's all pick the "rock" song.... Guess which ones the industry are getting excited about ...

I aksed her about the songs , her favourite is also the rock songs , but she accepts she has to get the commercial ones out there so she can get launched

So to sign off I am a happy old git that has confidence that there is still great stuff to come...

bertie

musicegbdf said:

Be honest the quality at semi pro level is far higher than 25 years ago and the same is true at the pro level.

dont agree totally,  the quality of the "good stuff" is far higher than 25 years ago completely agree,  but the "problem" is because  its much easier to get grear/perform/record  theres a lot more crap out there, and its much much easier for that crap to get an audience and that audience isnt "local social club"  its worldwide

musicegbdf

bertie said:

musicegbdf said:

Be honest the quality at semi pro level is far higher than 25 years ago and the same is true at the pro level.

dont agree totally,  the quality of the "good stuff" is far higher than 25 years ago completely agree,  but the "problem" is because  its much easier to get grear/perform/record  theres a lot more crap out there, and its much much easier for that crap to get an audience and that audience isnt "local social club"  its worldwide

I suppose you are right if you are talking of you tube and stuff like that , I was thinking more about people that actually get up on stage and get paid for it (semi pro or Pro). I don't think people are prepared to pay for crap that they can hear at any Karioke bar.

samzadgan

so here's my theory...there is still great music being made today...but you have to look for it...the difference over time i think has been that looking for music has become harder. let me explain...

back in the day (80's is the furthest back i can go), although i never like music on the charts (being a metal head) but for some reason i could find alternative music on mainstream mediums, like TV and Radio. It seems to me that distribution of music was a bit broader. I could watch or hear Metallica, Megadeth, Exodus, Testament, Suicidal Tendencies, Iron Maiden...etc...well, i say this growing up in Australia, not sure what it was like in the UK.

these days, through financial pressures the distribution of music through commercial mediums has become much more focused on what makes money...and what makes money are songs that "we" deem to be rubbish and simple etc.

on the upside, back in the 80's if you wanted to delve deeper it was more difficult and a lot of bands never got the recognition because of how hard it was to get onto mainstream media...now a days, people who want more can ditch commerical and go online and find so much more meaningful and advanced music, which i think (in metal anyway) in some cases are far beyond anything that has been created to date from a creative point of view and musicianship point of view.

Emp_Fab

OK, let me try another angle....  how many artists that populate the charts of today can actually play an instrument, compared to, say, the 70's ?  Obviously I don't know these kids personally, but you can guess that if they're dancing about in a video without an instrument, odds are that they're not playing on the track.

musicegbdf

Emp_Fab said:

OK, let me try another angle....  how many artists that populate the charts of today can actually play an instrument, compared to, say, the 70's ?  Obviously I don't know these kids personally, but you can guess that if they're dancing about in a video without an instrument, odds are that they're not playing on the track.

Mmm , not sure that is true. I know using examples is not good as there is always other examples. But heho.  Take Lady Gaga , a long history as a pianist.
 My daughter trained at full time stage school from the age of 10 , and I know those that have made it so far have a much greater depth than people would realise....  One example from her school is Newton Faulkner . Others that I can think of seem to have a public persona that is almost designed to hide their talents.

One thing I don't like is music right now is the over use of vocal "effects" used by female singers. This seems to have roots in American Gospel , and is brilliant used sparingly , but the over use of belting , warbling female vocalists is annoying. It seems that for attention grabbing there is too much of this.
I actually hate Rap , but then I thought punk was utter rubbish.... but I understand other people liked it and I respected that . I still stand in the corner of the youth today , and out of the swamp of mediocre there will always be great talent to come ....

octatonic

Emp_Fab said:

OK, let me try another angle....  how many artists that populate the charts of today can actually play an instrument, compared to, say, the 70's ?  Obviously I don't know these kids personally, but you can guess that if they're dancing about in a video without an instrument, odds are that they're not playing on the track.

Trying another angle implies that you've made your mind up and you're just looking to spin it so you have the data confirm your belief.

That is cherry picking.

Computers (or at least what we accept as a computer today) did not exist in the 1970's so it would be difficult to find people using them to create music

The only way to make music was to play an instrument, unless you were composing for other people who play music (ie composers).

Still, there were plenty of singers in the 60's/70's/80's that could only sing.

Look at the chart in 1970 for this week and we have the following:

1. BAND OF GOLD - FREDA PAYNE. Payne was as singer, couldn't play an instrument.

2. THE TEARS OF A CLOWN-  SMOKEY ROBINSON AND THE MIRACLES. Robinson was also a singer and songwriter- he also played piano. The song was co-written with Stevie Wonder. Classic song.

3. GIVE ME JUST A LITTLE MORE TIME- CHAIRMEN OF THE BOARD. Pop/soul band, still going today. They could play.

4. YOU CAN GET IT IF YOU REALLY WANT - DESMOND DEKKER. Dekker was a singer, only.

5. THE WONDER OF YOU - ELVIS PRESLEY. Elvis wasn't much of a musician himself.

6. MAMA TOLD ME NOT TO COME - THREE DOG NIGHT. Song written by Randy Newman, covered by Three Dog Night.

7. WHICH WAY YOU GOIN' BILLY? - POPPY FAMILY. They can play- barely. Pretty shit song though.

8. MONTEGO BAY- BOBBY BLOOM. Bloom was a musician but they used session musician on the track. Song was co-written with John Barry. 

9. BLACK NIGHT - DEEP PURPLE. Proper band- great song.

10. MAKE IT WITH YOU - BREAD. Turgid pop rock by uninspiring band.

I don't know about you but theres only 2 songs there that I would really want to listen to a lot (Tears of a Clown & Black Night).

There are a couple of others that are ok to good songs but one of them is a cover.

I'm not saying that the music industry hasn't changed but there hasn't be as huge a change as people like to believe.

octatonic

musicegbdf said:

I actually hate Rap , but then I thought punk was utter rubbish.... but I understand other people liked it and I respected that . I still stand in the corner of the youth today , and out of the swamp of mediocre there will always be great talent to come ....

Don't like rap?

Have a listen to the following tracks from Disposible Heroes of Hiphoprisy.

Fazer

i think a big difference between the shit music of today and the shit music of previous eras, was that in the past someone had to write the shit music, some people had to play it, and someone had to record/engineer and produce it.
so even if it was awful, bland, crappy crap crap rubbish, there was some kind of competence involved at some stage in putting it together.

in the current era its possible for a person with LITERALLY NO BRAIN to cobble something together by pressing a few buttons and a few drag-and-drops, and within seconds to create a PRODUCT which they can then spew all over the world.

ease of process can be a good thing in opening up creativity, and for people being able to express themselves/ideas/feelings etc, without being held back by limited technical ability, social skills, networking etc, but it also opens the floodgates for all the pushy copy-and-paste bullshitters

octatonic

Fazer said:

i think a big difference between the shit music of today and the shit music of previous eras, was that in the past someone had to write the shit music, some people had to play it, and someone had to record/engineer and produce it.
so even if it was awful, bland, crappy crap crap rubbish, there was some kind of competence involved at some stage in putting it together.

in the current era its possible for a person with LITERALLY NO BRAIN to cobble something together by pressing a few buttons and a few drag-and-drops, and within seconds to create a PRODUCT which they can then spew all over the world.

ease of process can be a good thing in opening up creativity, and for people being able to express themselves/ideas/feelings etc, without being held back by limited technical ability, social skills, networking etc, but it also opens the floodgates for all the pushy copy-and-paste bullshitters

I don't really agree with the sentiment that electronic music takes no brain to produce (I'm not saying that is expressly what YOU are saying, but I hear a lot of similar statements that seem to imply this.)

Well, it is true in the sense that anyone can put together anything in a computer and post it online but the industry simply doesn't support such people.

They might have a soundcloud page but they are highly unlikely to chart or get any exposure at all.

A lot of really innovative music is created in computers.

There is a really good TED talk by Ill Gates on this topic.

Let me see if I can find it.

Found it:

bertie

musicegbdf said:

 I don't think people are prepared to pay for crap that they can hear at any Karioke bar.

I think, you may be slightly misguided on what people are presented with where "voting with feet' isnt an option..........you'd be very surprised how much 'mediocre'  stuff there is out there masquerading as 'professional acts'    -   they can get their hands on (now) cheap gear and set up an act, it makes it very accessible to people that would/couldnt have afforded it a few years ago...........and thankfully were kept at home  !!!    

a large proportion of "semi pro"  type music is the stuff of pubs/social clubs, and most punters dont directly pay, and because it may be in their "local" pub or club,  will put up with it.....

but thats a meandering digress from the OT.......... 

Emp_Fab

I wish I could give you some examples of the kind of tripe I'm subjected to at the gym...  you'd all be in mass agreement with me then !

Trouble is... I can't remember any of the songs or the artists.... mainly because they're so forgettable ! :-)

ICBM

octatonic said:

Don't like rap?

Have a listen to the following tracks from Disposible Heroes of Hiphoprisy.

If even that's a bit hard going for rock-minded people, start with Spearhead, Michael Franti's later and more rock/reggae-oriented outfit, *then* Disposable Heroes.

Emp_Fab said:

I wish I could give you some examples of the kind of tripe I'm subjected to at the gym...  you'd all be in mass agreement with me then !

Trouble is... I can't remember any of the songs or the artists.... mainly because they're so forgettable ! :-)

I don't disagree with you about the tripe you're subjected to, I just think that if you went back 10, 20, 30, 40 or 50 years (or to any previous period of music) you'd find exactly the same thing.

There is a natural selection of music - good stuff gets remembered, bad stuff forgotten. That totally skews how you think about older music.

dindude

I tend to agree with most who are saying there has always been shit in every decade, and today is no different but there is some great stuff as well if you dig it out.

Even though I am technically too old (same age as Moyles and look what happened to him), I force myself to listen to R1 on my way home from work (can't do it in the mornings as I can't abide Nick Grimshaw), it is largely a thing of horror, but at least I feel informed as to what the "kids" are listening to and make my own desicion, and occasional I have picked up some gems. I guess I never want to get to the stage of being that old git who slags off the younger generation without being informed.

When my wife is in the car with me at weekends, she's always amazed that I can say "oh yeah, I hate this Chase and Status song it's shit", whereas to her it's just "youth music" with not a clue who or what it is.

musicegbdf

Good old days . Bay City Rollers . Need I say more . Will listen to the rap posted when I can as I like to keep an open mind

Grunfeld

stickyfiddle said:

The problem I have is where to find it. The "newest" band I love is Gaslight Anthem and their first record came out in 2007. How do people find new music that isn't shite?

Although you have to kiss a few frogs you can probably find a few radio stations which play your favourite sounds and introduce you to new stuff. 

These are the ones I listen to most, yours will almost certainly be different. But it's a great way to hear stuff "passively" rather than searching for it.

Late Junction on R3 for world and weird stuff -- this is my equivalent of "John Peel"

Spoon Radio for indie and rock stuff.  Good mixture of stuff I know and new stuff to me.

ChilloutRadio Greece -- for (not surprisingly) Chillout stuff.  No ads, good playlists. 

Radio Schizoid -- chillout version, for when the above station is being too obscure and I still want to keep that mood going.

monquixote

Total balls. 

Music in the charts has always been in the most shit. 

Bowie on TOTP made such an impact because it was a rarity. Watch the reruns on BBC4 and you will see most of it was black lace, Demis Rousos, Joe Dolche, David Cassidy, Shakin Stevens, etc. 

So far this year the only decent groups at number one have been Daft Punk and Rudimental which are essentially well crafted pop.

Check this list from 1977 

http://www.number-ones.co.uk/1977-number-ones.html

Do you see any Punk in the list? Any Bowie?

There are a few well written songs, but again they are the likes of Donna Summer. The bulk of it is Leo Sayer, David Soul and the like.