Backing tracks - opinions

Moltisanti

good discussion, and it's helped me come to the conclusion that while the logistics of putting together a real band with humans is difficult, the end result is worth the effort.

Stratavarious

It’s good to have some multi instrumental players.   If bass and guitars can swap and someone can play keys or sax for bits, you can cover the signature sounds of so much more material without resorting to backing tracks.

Evo

I don't think our thoughts or feelings on them are particularly relevant to be honest.

Whilst it's nice to be able to run in a 100% live act, we have to live in the real world.

We aren't going to fit 2x guitars, drums, keys, bass, 2x backing singers, percussion, and a brass section all on the stage at the dog and duck on a Saturday night. So the question becomes not about "playing live" but about "reproducing accuracy". Most of the time, using a backing track is the only practical solution for making the certain songs sound the way the do on the record. So do you want it to sound right? or would you rather compromise and make it 100% live?

I guess the answer lies in whether you're playing for your own enjoyment or playing for your audience's. 

Me? I want it to sound as good as it can because if I lag behind then someone else will eventually take those gigs off me. 

Moltisanti

The issue with reproducing accuracy is that you lose the feel of humans playing music together, it's not supposed to be perfect.
I've done it both ways and fully live is a lot more enjoyable. I totally get using backing tracks in the right scenario, if it works for what you're doing then it's all good.

stickyfiddle

Evo said:

I don't think our thoughts or feelings on them are particularly relevant to be honest.

Whilst it's nice to be able to run in a 100% live act, we have to live in the real world.

We aren't going to fit 2x guitars, drums, keys, bass, 2x backing singers, percussion, and a brass section all on the stage at the dog and duck on a Saturday night. So the question becomes not about "playing live" but about "reproducing accuracy". Most of the time, using a backing track is the only practical solution for making the certain songs sound the way the do on the record. So do you want it to sound right? or would you rather compromise and make it 100% live?

I guess the answer lies in whether you're playing for your own enjoyment or playing for your audience's. 

Me? I want it to sound as good as it can because if I lag behind then someone else will eventually take those gigs off me. 

I'd rather just not play tiny places with a big band. 

To play devil's advocate, why not replace yourself as well? 

Personally I like live music because magic can happe - and that's at any level from a street corner to a stadium. If it's all on tracks there's no chance of magic. 

Danny1969

When it comes to horns I'm quite happy with horns played on keys. It sounds good enough and actually fits a lot of songs better. Some real brass can sound a bit pitchy to my ears. We had a real sax player at the last Indies 80's gig, sax does sound shite on keys, and she was great but for the other bands I will do a solo on guitar rather than have a sax solo and the keys brass works well enough. 

I'm not sure you need BT's to get a push up the pyramid financially. None of the bands I'm involved with are using them, from the ticketed gigs to the corporate awards shows. It's all live and just 4 or 5 piece. Either 2 guitars bass and drums or 1 guitar, I keys player, bass and drums 

The main thing is to entertain and for the most part that's not really coming from sticking to a rigid BT, it's a live energy thing and the interaction with the audience. You absolutely MUST have a great drummer who can drive the band consistently at the right pace, a bass player who locks into that and then it's down to a great entertaining frontman really. 

stickyfiddle

Danny1969 said:

When it comes to horns I'm quite happy with horns played on keys. It sounds good enough and actually fits a lot of songs better. Some real brass can sound a bit pitchy to my ears. We had a real sax player at the last Indies 80's gig, sax does sound shite on keys, and she was great but for the other bands I will do a solo on guitar rather than have a sax solo and the keys brass works well enough. 

I'm not sure you need BT's to get a push up the pyramid financially. None of the bands I'm involved with are using them, from the ticketed gigs to the corporate awards shows. It's all live and just 4 or 5 piece. Either 2 guitars bass and drums or 1 guitar, I keys player, bass and drums 

The main thing is to entertain and for the most part that's not really coming from sticking to a rigid BT, it's a live energy thing and the interaction with the audience. You absolutely MUST have a great drummer who can drive the band consistently at the right pace, a bass player who locks into that and then it's down to a great entertaining frontman really. 

+1 to all of that. Ans great vocal harmonies is the other thing that really separates ok from awesome.

My current lot has 5 out of 6 all experienced live singers so we can throw a 3 or 4 part harmony together in no time. It's brilliant fun

vasselmeyer

We're a three piece band plus a female singer and I also do BVs. We've idly considered using a BT on a couple of songs but when looking at it, it was just too much faff. I'd rather do a different song. 

However, we've been doing the super-cheesy Kellie Marie song "Feels Like I'm in Love" recently (which goes down a storm, by the way) and have been getting the audience to do the "bom-bom" synth-drum hits. Without any of us knowing , our bass player brought along a pad and triggered it during the gig. It was absolutely wild; all of us were looking around trying to find out where it was coming from! 

The audience loved it, so I reckon it's probably a permanent feature in our setup. 

Stratavarious

stickyfiddle said:

Evo said:

I don't think our thoughts or feelings on them are particularly relevant to be honest.

To play devil's advocate, why not replace yourself as well? 

Personally I like live music because magic can happe - and that's at any level from a street corner to a stadium. If it's all on tracks there's no chance of magic. 

That is the thing… artists with backing tracks are perhaps on the fast track to AI replacement.   The pursuit of both accuracy and profit.

Name artists are already training AI avatars of themselves to interact with fans and to voice train AI vocal generators.  Today’s fake Taylor Swift with backing tracks, could be a screen based jukebox soon with a facsimile original artist… paid per play.

Why would a venue book a sweaty overweight dressed up Elvis when they can have a pixel perfect digital performer that is interactive with their customers.

Open_G

We recently introduced using tracks after several challenging auditions. We are now a three piece with tracks. While our 4th member doesn’t throw a strop, is note perfect and very cheap to hire. There is a massive challenge to learning the tracks which aren’t always per the record. There’s a whole new set of skill I’ve had to learn in the last 6 months after playing live since I was 16. 

I’m still not 100% sure how I feel about it. But the overall sound is pretty great. 

Keefy

Open_G said:

We recently introduced using tracks after several challenging auditions. We are now a three piece with tracks. While our 4th member doesn’t throw a strop, is note perfect and very cheap to hire. There is a massive challenge to learning the tracks which aren’t always per the record. There’s a whole new set of skill I’ve had to learn in the last 6 months after playing live since I was 16. 

I’m still not 100% sure how I feel about it. But the overall sound is pretty great. 

There sometimes seems to be a presumption that tracks are an easy option. As you’ve found, that is far from true! Although it’s possible to just put the drummer on a click via IEMs, it’s far better to do so with the whole band. It’s a very different way of playing and takes a while to get accustomed to, to the point where you can relax a bit when playing.

This is kind of getting away from how we feel about tracks (I posted earlier on that) although it is relevant to how I feel about it as a player i.e. I prefer it to be all live.

Also as someone who deps a lot, I’m not going to turn down a decent gig just because the band runs tracks alongside their real instruments.

Moltisanti

there's nothing worse than losing your place in the track then missing the change for the chorus. Also when your singer comes in early you can't just wing it!

maltingsaudio

Moltisanti said:

there's nothing worse than losing your place in the track then missing the change for the chorus. Also when your singer comes in early you can't just wing it!

Been there a couple of times,especially on Summer of 69.Click intro then silence from the track for the  live guitar intro then  drums etc come in , is it 4 or 8 beats ? 

Keefy

maltingsaudio said:

Moltisanti said:

there's nothing worse than losing your place in the track then missing the change for the chorus. Also when your singer comes in early you can't just wing it!

Been there a couple of times,especially on Summer of 69.Click intro then silence from the track for the  live guitar intro then  drums etc come in , is it 4 or 8 beats ? 

That's why you have a cue track alongside the click, so every so often in your in-ears you'll hear something like 'Chorus-2-3-4'. That way you don't stay lost for long!

Moltisanti

maltingsaudio said:

Moltisanti said:

there's nothing worse than losing your place in the track then missing the change for the chorus. Also when your singer comes in early you can't just wing it!

Been there a couple of times,especially on Summer of 69.Click intro then silence from the track for the  live guitar intro then  drums etc come in , is it 4 or 8 beats ? 

haha yeah me too! you find out who in the band has a good internal rhythm at moments like that. Another one is having tracks with insanely loud parts that come in and scare the bejeesus out of you. If you are using backing tracks I would take the time to go through and make sure they are all the same level

Musicwolf

Backing tracks aren't an easy option, you have to actually learn the song.  This should, of course, be straight forward since the track never changes and you can practice at home as often as you like.

Some people practice until they get it right, the good ones practice until they don't get it wrong.

Jalapeno

Don't mind as long as it isn't all MOR pap for singers saving from having to hire band members.  Licensing is also an issue - not allowed more than 2 musicians for example.

A sax player I know uses BTs on an iPad for solo charity fund-raisers +/- a singer, and it sounds pretty good tbh. 

Keefy

Jalapeno said:

Don't mind as long as it isn't all MOR pap for singers saving from having to hire band members.  Licensing is also an issue - not allowed more than 2 musicians for example.

A sax player I know uses BTs on an iPad for solo charity fund-raisers +/- a singer, and it sounds pretty good tbh. 

I thought the '2-in-a-bar' rule was long gone?

stickyfiddle

Keefy said:

maltingsaudio said:

Moltisanti said:

there's nothing worse than losing your place in the track then missing the change for the chorus. Also when your singer comes in early you can't just wing it!

Been there a couple of times,especially on Summer of 69.Click intro then silence from the track for the  live guitar intro then  drums etc come in , is it 4 or 8 beats ? 

That's why you have a cue track alongside the click, so every so often in your in-ears you'll hear something like 'Chorus-2-3-4'. That way you don't stay lost for long!

Our drummer does that when we're on IEMs - that's just having a bandleader. It's really good. He also tells jokes sometimes... 

Keefy said:

Jalapeno said:

Don't mind as long as it isn't all MOR pap for singers saving from having to hire band members.  Licensing is also an issue - not allowed more than 2 musicians for example.

A sax player I know uses BTs on an iPad for solo charity fund-raisers +/- a singer, and it sounds pretty good tbh. 

I thought the '2-in-a-bar' rule was long gone?

Abu Dhabi doens't have a 2 in a bar rule, but it does have a licence fee which is per-performer, so it's almost impossible to get bar gigs for more than 2 people. It's part of what has given me such a hatred of this whole thing...

GuyBoden

I've recorded my own Jazz comping as backing tracks and played over them live in a local pub.

There's no payment involved, so I'm playing Jazz for my own enjoyment. 

It's not a serious venture, I'm only a hobby player.