Machine heads for les paul?

Reverend

Played Sunday and a tuning peg kicked the bucket. As one of the others was a replacement anyway its may be time to replace. Any suggestions, and anything I should avoid?

ICBM

What type are they - Kluson-type pressed steel with a push-in bushing, Kluson-looking diecast with a threaded front collar and hex nut, or Grover Rotomatic?

In general try to avoid the second type, they’re prone to breaking. (Guessing this may be what’s on it!)

Hootsmon

If you don't mind exposed holes from old tuners Grover look the part

Philly_Q

ICBM said:

What type are they - Kluson-type pressed steel with a push-in bushing, Kluson-looking diecast with a threaded front collar and hex nut, or Grover Rotomatic?

In general try to avoid the second type, they’re prone to breaking. (Guessing this may be what’s on it!)

If they're the Gibson Deluxe ones, they do seem to be not particularly well made.  I restrung an oldish Gibson a couple of weeks ago and although the tuners did still work, a couple of them were extremely wobbly once the string tension was off.

I started a thread a few months back trying to work out if the equivalent Faber (and Grover) tuners, which look very similar, are actually exactly the same, but didn't really reach a conclusion.

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/4320646/#Comment_4320646

ICBM

Philly_Q said:

I started a thread a few months back trying to work out if the equivalent Faber (and Grover) tuners, which look very similar, are actually exactly the same, but didn't really reach a conclusion.

There are actually two types - Schaller-made ones with two rectangular pins holding the cover on, and the others with one rectangular and two round - but they are otherwise identical. All of them have the same design fault which is that the pins are just soft alloy and can break off if the key gets bashed, and only the pins and the cover hold the mechanism together.

I have quite a few spares from the left-over undamaged ones when I’ve replaced sets, as I’m sure most repairers do…

Philly_Q

ICBM said:

There are actually two types - Schaller-made ones with two rectangular pins holding the cover on, and the others with one rectangular and two round - but they are otherwise identical. All of them have the same design fault which is that the pins are just soft alloy and can break off if the key gets bashed, and only the pins and the cover hold the mechanism together.

Interesting!  It's not easy to find pictures of them from the other side!  I see the top one here says "PW", so I guess that's made by Ping Well - I don't know what brand was on the back.  The second one seems to say "TPXLICWD"... TonePros something licenced WD?  The third one is Schaller.

ICBM

With the Schallers you can be lucky - the pins sometimes pop out of their slots without breaking, so you can fit them back and re-rivet them with a punch - with the other type the round pins almost always break off.

Contrast with the right-hand one in the middle pic, which is a pressed/folded sheet steel Kluson type - far stronger and doesn’t suffer from this fault.

Philly_Q

I do prefer the older Kluson style with the press-in bushings.  But of course if you're replacing the other type... I know you can get adaptor bushings, but they look a bit crap and there are always ring marks left by the washers.

crunchman

If yours is a more modern LP, then it might have an 18:1 ratio on the gearing.  If it's older, or some kind of vintage reissue, it might be 14:1.  I'd definitely be looking for 18:1 on the replacements either way.  The higher ratio will make it a lot easier to tune precisely.

Gomers

I tend to look at Gotoh replacements, MIJ quality build and operation.