Recording/Playing to a Tempo/Guide track.

paul_backskin

Ok. I'm trying to record a guitar guide track for my drummer (Reaper). I've tried to stick exclusively to a metronome, but it just sounds "wrong".

This song has a lot of tempo and a few time sig changes. But to me it sounds far too rigid and lacks a natural flow.

When we've recorded in studio before, we tended to start recording a section of a song to a click then turn it off after a few bars, get what we are happy with, then record the next section and so on. (we like a lot of odd time changes etc)

I read a lot about how important playing to a click is, and you are rubbish if you can't do it etc etc.

But this song, some of the run downs at the end of section slow down slightly, there are slight pauses at changes that just get lost to a tight click track, and it sounds like lots if different riffs stuck together harshly.

I know I could spend ages with a tempo track in Reaper, and it allows for gradual changes etc... but I don't know... Is it really such a sin to let some parts just happen naturally?

I think maybe I will make my own metronome guide tracks from tapping in kick/snare drums tightly to a grid and going a bit more free where it feels right...

What approach do you guys take?

spark240

I find  that playing along to a pre-set rhythm pattern is always better,,..a good preset will have groove and feel already programmed in.  

Danny1969

If the drummer is great then you don't need a click. The whole purpose of the click is to make editing easier as we can then use Beat detective or manually move hits until it's right. You can still edit if it's not done to a click but it's a lot harder. If the drummer plays with a great feel and it sounds cool then there's no need for a click IMHO. Being able to play to a click is a useful skill, sometimes here the drums are done last for example and that would be impossible if there was no click 

I tend to knock up a beat rather than using a straight click, as the guys I record prefer that. For tempo changes I just make a note of the bar and build a tempo map. Doesn't take long. If there's a lot of changes then the record it by sections is probably a good approach 

paul_backskin

@Danny1969 moving hits and stuff - not a problem. we are demoing and he is playing on an electronic kit and recording all the drums in midi and playing back through a VST.

I'm just finding it hard to record a guitar guide track for him to track drums to (we are not recording our parts together). I've recorded guitar to a click and used a temp map.. but to me the rigid sterile-ness sounds off, as im losing the feel of the mild gradual slowdowns and pauses we put in when playing the song live, that help transition the temp/sig changes (sometimes you want a harsh change, depends..). I'm guess with a bit of time I could knock up a beat as you say to use as a guide and just go off grid when needed to try and get the 'feel' til im happy with it, then track a guitar guide to that.

Clarky

I play tight to the click.. I just like it that way.

and if a section needs to speed up or slow down.. I'll programme the tempo changes.. if the changes need to be gradual rather than sudden, I use automation curves to control the rate of tempo change.. a linear increase / decrease in tempo rarely sounds natural

PolarityMan

@Danny1969 There are some drummers good enough to do this but in my experience they are rare. Actually what I have found is that sometimes when we have had similar sections that don;t sound right it is actually because they don't fit and we were just kind of blagging the transitions live. It sounds reasonable because we have enough practice at doing it but it can be the sign of a poor transition.

Posting an example of your guide _ click might be helpful.

Drew_TNBD

Danny1969 said:

If the drummer is great then you don't need a click. The whole purpose of the click is to make editing easier 

um... no. Clicks existed way before editing and recording tools. Clicks (otherwise known as metronomes) exist to help musicians tighten up their performance through the use of their muscle memory and co-ordination skills.

notonlybutalso

paul_backskin said:

I read a lot about how important playing to a click is, and you are rubbish if you can't do it etc etc.

It is absolutely not important at all, it is far far more important to get the feel and the groove of the track in. Some people play better to a click and that is fine, but some people concentrate too much on hitting the beat to the degradation of the performance, and that is the most important thing to capture. As many pros use click as those who don't. Why don't you just track live with the drummer, but have your guitar only going through your headphone mix so there is no bleed into the drum mics?