Paint stripper

suspiciousminds

I have this old squier strat body which i've picked up a suitable neck for so i'm going to build a partscaster.
Now, someone has hand painted the body really badly and i can see the the original white/cream in the neck pocket.
Basically all i want to do is remove the crappy paint back to the original - and as long as its not too bad (dont mind chips etc) make do with that.
If i use paint stripper is it likely to do more damage to the original finish or will it just affect the hand painted stuff?

mike_l

Airfix (no I'm not joking) does a small bottle of paint remover which is supposed to be really good for all paint types.

Shouldn't be too strong, and risk damaging anything else.

suspiciousminds

Brill thx

meltedbuzzbox

will it shift with a white spirit/wd40 or a plastic scraper?

suspiciousminds

Havent tried anything yet but it'll need something substantial to shift it i think due to the amount on it.

p90fool

IIRC you can leave a gigantic blob of Nitromors on a Squier body overnight and it won't have the slightest effect, so whatever you use should only remove the "custom" paint.

If I'm wrong and you find something legally available over the counter which accidentally takes the original paint off too please tell us what it is, because nobody else has managed it!

rossi

if its any help .The F1 teams used 2 K paint  and between repaints all the old paint was scraped off to save weight (honest) so nuffink will move it  other than a scraper which is actually quite easy .I think the teams use skins now .

Corvus

DIY paintstripper (Nitromors) is relatively useless nowadays since DCM /methylene choride / dichlormethane was banned from domestic use by the EU. But car paint shop / bodyshop supplies will have stripper with it, Syn Strip is one but there's a few.
I have some neat DCM and soaked kitchen towels in it, laid that on covered in clingfilm, it softens 2k up. Messy and stinky. Need a mask (not a crappy dust mask).

Depending what the 'custom' paint is, DIY nitromors might soften it enough, if it's trowelled on it might be enamel, which a stripper should take care of.

Accidentally found once that ammonia gel oven cleaner takes off 2k and other things that even pre-ban Nitromors didn't touch. When in a cut, it keeps on & on stinging.. nasty stuff.

WezV

I did clean up an old aria cardinal bass someone had jackson pollocked with ordinary nitromors and elbow grease.   Its eaxactly what I needed as it didn't touch the original paint at all

 

 

just depends what type of paint has been used on top

Maynehead

I wouldn't worry too much about keeping the original paint in the neck pocket. In fact I'd get rid of all traces of paint from there. The neck pocket is critical for tone transfer and anything that gets in the way of the neck wood and body wood is detrimental. Ideally it should be bare wood on bare wood, with as much surface contact as possible (which means a completely flat and sanded pocket), and if you examine any good quality bolt on this is what you will see.

The only reason there's paint in there in the first place is because they probably dipped the guitar and didn't bother masking the neck pocket to save money!

suspiciousminds

Got some paint and varnish stripper today so i'll have a bash with that tnite.

ICBM

p90fool said:

IIRC you can leave a gigantic blob of Nitromors on a Squier body overnight and it won't have the slightest effect, so whatever you use should only remove the "custom" paint. 

If I'm wrong and you find something legally available over the counter which accidentally takes the original paint off too please tell us what it is, because nobody else has managed it! 

Exactly. Given that it normally takes a direct hit from a nuclear weapon to dislodge the polyester finish on a typical far-east-made guitar, don't worry about damaging it with anything you might use to take the overpaint off.

WezV

Maynehead said:

I wouldn't worry too much about keeping the original paint in the neck pocket. In fact I'd get rid of all traces of paint from there. The neck pocket is critical for tone transfer and anything that gets in the way of the neck wood and body wood is detrimental. Ideally it should be bare wood on bare wood, with as much surface contact as possible (which means a completely flat and sanded pocket), and if you examine any good quality bolt on this is what you will see.

any example of manufacturers that offer that good quality bolt on join?  any example of manufacturers which dip rather than spray?

I know some of the ed romans of this world use it as a selling feature, but in my experience as long as there is not an overload of paint it doesn't really harm tonal transfer too much at all.   A paper or card shim is also okay for small tweaks and doesn't really make a big difference in tone... or at least the improved set-up from having a shim improves the tone more than the shim diminishes it.

 there is no magic that happens when bare wood touches bare wood.  okay, adding a rubber buffer in between would have an adverse affect  so I can see why it needs to be considered.  but i think the people that claim a neck join needs to be 100% paint free make far too much of this.   but, in my experience a thin layer of hard and brittle paint, or an oil finish is absolutely fine  (thick layers of soft paint are different and don't belong on guitars anyway)

I say all this knowing guitars finished by me generally have a lot less finish in the neck pocket than most manufactures - but I rarely leave them as totally bare wood

Maynehead

WezV said:

Maynehead said:

I wouldn't worry too much about keeping the original paint in the neck pocket. In fact I'd get rid of all traces of paint from there. The neck pocket is critical for tone transfer and anything that gets in the way of the neck wood and body wood is detrimental. Ideally it should be bare wood on bare wood, with as much surface contact as possible (which means a completely flat and sanded pocket), and if you examine any good quality bolt on this is what you will see.

any example of manufacturers that offer that good quality bolt on join?  any example of manufacturers which dip rather than spray?

I know some of the ed romans of this world use it as a selling feature, but in my experience as long as there is not an overload of paint it doesn't really harm tonal transfer too much at all.   A paper or card shim is also okay for small tweaks and doesn't really make a big difference in tone... or at least the improved set-up from having a shim improves the tone more than the shim diminishes it.

 there is no magic that happens when bare wood touches bare wood.  okay, adding a rubber buffer in between would have an adverse affect  so I can see why it needs to be considered.  but i think the people that claim a neck join needs to be 100% paint free make far too much of this.   but, in my experience a thin layer of hard and brittle paint, or an oil finish is absolutely fine  (thick layers of soft paint are different and don't belong on guitars anyway)

I say all this knowing guitars finished by me generally have a lot less finish in the neck pocket than most manufactures - but I rarely leave them as totally bare wood

Firstly, don't take what I said the wrong way, I'm not saying if you don't have wood on wood your tone is going to suffer in any significant way. In fact I use card shims in my bolt ons all the time!

But in the context of this thread and the issue at hand, which is @suspisiousminds trying to find ways of preserving the original neck pocket paint, I'm simply suggesting that there's no reason to go out of the way to keep the original paint intact, and it may even be of benefit if the original paint came off in the process!

As for bolt on guitars with bare neck pockets, I have owned, let's see, at least 10 bolt ons of various quality and price categories, from USA custom shop Schecters to Japanese Jacksons to cheap parts casters, and I have only ever seen 1 with paint in the neck pocket, which is a Chinese made peavey tele. The paint was so thick and uneven that there were only about 3 points of contact between the neck and the body, through bumps in the paint. I ended up filing it down as flat as I can but the paint was too thick to remove completely. Unfortunately I didn't do a before and after so i can't say if there was any tonal benefits. In any case, in my experience neck pockets are usually unpainted except in the cheapest of guitars.

WezV

I guess we have different ideas of what a bare neck join looks like.   fender neck pockets are mostly bare on the body side, as are the factories you mentioned - but the necks are almost always lacquered so you still have a layer of lacquer between body and neck and its rarely the bare wood on bare wood join that people claim is so beneficial.  

although with the fender you also have stickers and shims in place which make it all a moot point

How many of those 10 bolt-on necks you owned also had non lacquered neck heels as well as bare neck pockets?

I completely agree about thick lumpy finishes in neck pockets and that it is best to get it all level

The issue is that many people on guitar forums all over the world have said that cleaning paint out of a neck pocket (and off the heel soemtimes) of guitars,  will give better tone.   But most of the time it leads to looser neck pockets and more need for a shim

ICBM

There used to be a theory (maybe still is, I don't know) that card shims "ruin" the tone or the "transfer of vibration" or something, either due to the cardboard or the air gap in the middle of the pocket, and that in order to get the best "tone transfer" you should make a tapered wooden wedge to shim the neck, ensuring full surface contact on both parts. I've only come across one of these once, and unfortunately it was the wrong thickness so I had to replace it. I couldn't be bothered to go to all that trouble so I just put a card shim in.

And the tone improved out of all recognition. What had been quite a dead-sounding guitar became vibrant and resonant. So either cardboard and an air gap sounds better than wood and surface-to-surface contact, or it doesn't matter and the set-up is much more important...

Bogwhoppit

p90fool said:

If I'm wrong and you find something legally available over the counter which accidentally takes the original paint off too please tell us what it is, because nobody else has managed it!

Aircraft remover ( Epoxy stripper).

 

Albeit, you may have to take it to a professional paint removal company due to the Health & Safety issues - over the counter products as below, may not be the true spec. However, it strips two part poly like acetone strips nitro.

 

 http://www.rust.co.uk/as10-resin-remover/p506326/

 

http://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/auto/paint-chemicals/aircraft-remover

 

 

 

 

 

Maynehead

The answer to your question is, none. They've all had lacquered necks.

But again, that wasn't what I was trying to advocate. I was simply giving a theoretical example of an ideal situation to aid my point that he does not need to overly worry about keeping the old paint in there. What is more important is having a flat surface and good contact as, if nothing else, it helps to keep the neck stable due to increased friction.

I can't help but get the feeling you've read one too many posts made by tone fanatics preaching the holy grail of neck pocket etiquette... Well rest assured I am not one of those people. In fact even my stage guitar has a piece of card stuffed in the neck pocket as to me, a good string action is a lot more important than any kind of wood on wood contact! (Hmm, that just sounds wrong doesn't it...) :\">

WezV

Maynehead said:

I can't help but get the feeling you've read one too many posts made by tone fanatics preaching the holy grail of neck pocket etiquette... Well rest assured I am not one of those people. In fact even my stage guitar has a piece of card stuffed in the neck pocket as to me, a good string action is a lot more important than any kind of wood on wood contact! (Hmm, that just sounds wrong doesn't it...) :\">

oh, i definitely have... but upon reading your first post my assumption was you had too - and maybe believed a bit too much of it  

Sounds  like we are agreeing about the important points, level pocket and good set-up being the key

a bare wood on wood bolt on neck is a relatively rare thing

p90fool

Maynehead;478449" said:

The answer to your question is, none. They've all had lacquered necks.

But again, that wasn't what I was trying to advocate. I was simply giving a theoretical example of an ideal situation to aid my point that he does not need to overly worry about keeping the old paint in there. What is more important is having a flat surface and good contact as, if nothing else, it helps to keep the neck stable due to increased friction.

I can't help but get the feeling you've read one too many posts made by tone fanatics preaching the holy grail of neck pocket etiquette... Well rest assured I am not one of those people. In fact even my stage guitar has a piece of card stuffed in the neck pocket as to me, a good string action is a lot more important than any kind of wood on wood contact! (Hmm, that just sounds wrong doesn't it...) ">

I think you've missed the point all the way through tbh. He's not trying to preserve the paint in the neck pocket, he's trying to preserve the original paint of the whole guitar body while removing the additional hand painted layers.
He only mentioned the neck pocket because it's the only area where you can see the original colour.

At least that's the way I read it.

Maynehead

WezV said:

Maynehead said:

I can't help but get the feeling you've read one too many posts made by tone fanatics preaching the holy grail of neck pocket etiquette... Well rest assured I am not one of those people. In fact even my stage guitar has a piece of card stuffed in the neck pocket as to me, a good string action is a lot more important than any kind of wood on wood contact! (Hmm, that just sounds wrong doesn't it...) :\">

oh, i definitely have... but upon reading your first post my assumption was you had too - and maybe believed a bit too much of it  

Sounds  like we are agreeing about the important points, level pocket and good set-up being the key

a bare wood on wood bolt on neck is a relatively rare thing

This is the first guitar forum I have ever joined so I'm a virgin in terms of guitar related internet folklore and hackneyed mistruths. Most of my knowledge is acquired from personal experience with working on guitars catalysed by the numerous mistakes I've made along the way, reinforced with a little bit of theoretical assumptions through my understanding of physics.

Luckily I'm a very skeptical person by nature so hopefully I will not be as easily tempted to propagate anything and everything I read as the de-facto truth.