Tidal bullshit...

bobblehat

Heartfeltdawn said:

In case there are those who think I am anti-streaming, I am not. It's clearly the new way to go and the environmentalist in me thinks it's better than having a whole new load of plastic CD trays and broken discs in landfills in the future. But the bottom line is that the creators of content need to be rewarded properly. 

The biggest problem as I see it is the amount we are prepared to pay fro streaming services. £10 is pretty much the limit for the average music consumer.Its at the limit of what teens can afford with their pocket money and yet another bill to add to your sky/netflix/internet etc. 

DulcetJones

Heartfeltdawn said:

 But the bottom line is that the creators of content need to be rewarded properly. 

Exactly.  I have asked this question here and on twitter but have no answer yet:  what does Tidal pay artists per stream?  I already know from my quarterly reports what Spotify and the rest "pay".

Cirrus

This is the thread where I begin to suspect @Heartfeltdawn and me are the same person. Proof; our views on the music industry are aligned, and we both have owned the same Weber Silver Bell.

Heartfeltdawn

bobblehat said:. 

The biggest problem as I see it is the amount we are prepared to pay fro streaming services. £10 is pretty much the limit for the average music consumer.Its at the limit of what teens can afford with their pocket money and yet another bill to add to your sky/netflix/internet etc. 

Pity the poor teens. Poor teens with their mobile bills, their wifi paid for by Mater and Pater, and all the rest. When I was a teen, it was a simple choice: I can spend money on clothes and going out and shit or I can buy records. Records won. 

You're right about the other bills. People paid out in the past for individual items. They paid for records and movies and paid a TV licence. Imagine telecommunications pre-Internet: you paid your landline phone bill and your television licence. Now it's TV licence, landline cost, mobile bills (maybe more than one bill if you're a family), if you're a sucker you've paid for Sky (I will never ever pay for Sky television), Netflix and Lovefilm too if you just can't get enough television... 

Who has enough hours in the day to watch all of this crap? Some people clearly do. Perhaps it explains the rise in people who are thick as pigshit. 

So now money doesn't go to the people who create the content. It's paid to the people who control the method of delivery of content. Netflix, Sky, ISP, mobile phone company. All of whom would be affected without high quality content. 

I agree, £10 a month, try to get as many people as possible to pay something. But this is where Spotify fails. If they had sense, they'd be trying to develop artists and sign them up to Spotify direct. Bypass the major labels, sadly we can't bypass the PRS who I have huge issues after clashing with them last year, and deal direct with musicians. The financial reward is there for the major labels (the indies get fucked over), there's reward for Ek, but the small guys are still getting pissed on.  

In the wake of the Tidal release, it's funny seeing designers grumbling about the Tidal UI ripping off Spotify's look. Would that be the same Spotify whose creator was the CEO of a torrent company that ripped off musicians, films, television, games, and others? 

Heartfeltdawn

Cirrus said:

This is the thread where I begin to suspect @Heartfeltdawn and me are the same person. Proof; our views on the music industry are aligned, and we both have owned the same Weber Silver Bell.

But you're a nice chap and I'm a big horrible bastard. And I have a stroopwafel addiction

chrispy108

I wish someone would setup an easy, efficient way for you to "tip" a band online.

I listen to most music on Spotify now, still buy a few CDs of my absolute favourite bands, but that's because I still want the physical product in those cases, not really to give the band more money (as they're probably lucky to get even 10% of the price).

I wish I could easily throw a few £s at an artist I like to support them, if on Spotify I could load up extra money £10 at a time, and then chose how I split it between the artists I've listened to that month I'd do it, and that seems a way more fan and artist friendly model than the confusion Tidal are "discussing".

Heartfeltdawn

chrispy108 said:

I wish someone would setup an easy, efficient way for you to "tip" a band online.

I listen to most music on Spotify now, still buy a few CDs of my absolute favourite bands, but that's because I still want the physical product in those cases, not really to give the band more money (as they're probably lucky to get even 10% of the price).

I wish I could easily throw a few £s at an artist I like to support them, if on Spotify I could load up extra money £10 at a time, and then chose how I split it between the artists I've listened to that month I'd do it, and that seems a way more fan and artist friendly model than the confusion Tidal are "discussing".

I like this idea

littlegreenman

Presonus' Nimbit has a tip jar, but it's not a streaming service.

DulcetJones

Bandcamp "allows" buyers to either pay the specified price or any amount above that if they are really feeling it. 

bobblehat

DulcetJones said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

 But the bottom line is that the creators of content need to be rewarded properly. 

Exactly.  I have asked this question here and on twitter but have no answer yet:  what does Tidal pay artists per stream?  I already know from my quarterly reports what Spotify and the rest "pay".

When asked directly if they pay more than Spotify Jay Z's reply was "we could do that". 

My interpretation of that is ,they don't currently pay any more than Spotify and they probably can't afford to at this stage given they have far less subscribers.

guitarfishbay

chrispy108;581271" said:

I wish someone would setup an easy, efficient way for you to "tip" a band online."

Absolutely this. I'd also support tipping at shows as a convention. I don't always want to buy merch.

ToneControl

Heartfeltdawn said:

ToneControl said:

you can "not make a profit", yet pay yourself £1m salary, since profit is after salaries and expenses are paid

I know someone with a lot of stuff on spotify, he got around $20 for 6 months from cdbaby, mostly from spotify

Not a way to earn a living I think. No data on how many plays this is from though

So - reflecting on that, selling 2 CDs as a busker would earn you more

Of course. The point I was making is that there's this idea that 'not making a profit' means hardship and toil. When your average small business owner doesn't make a profit, that's when people shit themselves about bailiffs and going under. When it's a huge company like Spotify, a company that has a record of growth and would undoubtedly raise a lot through flotation, then 'It doesn't make a profit' holds no weight. After all, Ek is worth at least $300 million, not bad for a man whose company hasn't made a profit. 

fully agree,

monquixote

A company's valuation and profit are two completely different things. 

Heartfeltdawn

monquixote said:

A company's valuation and profit are two completely different things. 

Oh yes. 

wibble

Interesting article and infographic about how much artists get from sales/streaming...

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/apr/03/how-much-musicians-make-spotify-itunes-youtube


original source here...

http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/2010/how-much-do-music-artists-earn-online/

Fazer

wibble said:

Interesting article and infographic about how much artists get from sales/streaming...

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/apr/03/how-much-musicians-make-spotify-itunes-youtube

yeah, thats pretty grim.

and what i find even more depressing are the comment sections of any article about musicians income.
its always filled with bizarre moth-frothing rage directed at record labels, fair enough, but at musicians and bands  in general, and how they should have to work for a living like everyone else, playing live shows and not laying around in their swimming pools and raking in the royalties.
the amount of venom and spite is just bewildering

BigMonka

One thing that I don't get about Spotify is that on the free version there are hardly any adverts and they are pretty much only adverts for upgrading to Premium. I can't help thinking that they'd make considerably more money with commercial adverts, like on local radio, and then be able to pay artists more.

Fazer

BigMonka said:

One thing that I don't get about Spotify is that on the free version there are hardly any adverts and they are pretty much only adverts for upgrading to Premium. I can't help thinking that they'd make considerably more money with commercial adverts, like on local radio, and then be able to pay artists more.

hmm, maybe the customers would find the adverts too annoying and that go elsewhere, that would lend credence to the idea that they aren't really trying to make a running profit (and payments to the artists), but merely to build up the market share/hits and then flog it off and cash in

Deijavoo

Registered a Tidal account today with a 30 day free trial. So far it's pretty good, missing Shellac though which is a pisser.

I'll still use Bandcamp to pay bands I love though.