Looks like I'm about to become "that guy"

Grunfeld

Emp_Fab said:

TTony said:

Have you ever tried a decent physiotherapist?

The trouble with doctors/surgeons is that they're a bit like "I can solve any problem with my hammer".... 

Neither the GP nor the surgeon mentioned physio as an option because it wasn't a hammer.

There are good ones and really expert ones (and some not particularly useful ones) out there - not all can do the same magic.

+1

@Grunfeld is a physio - he may be able to offer advice...

Definitely correct about some orthopods thinking like that but it comes with the territory -- very often by the time they see a patient they need a hammer... or a big knife.  And physios can also be guilty of thinking everything can be fixed with a few exercises.  The best results are always from careful diagnosis and working out what, if anything, will help the most.  A really good surgeon will know if there's a better conservative option; a good physio will know when surgery is indicated.

I had a student last week.  We were talking about shoulders.  Her brain overheated; shoulders can be complicated.

@digitalscream it's absolutely worth seeing a physio if you have not done so already.  And if you don't have initial success then see another one because it's exactly as @TTony says, there are some really expert ones out there and there are some less expert ones (a bit like everything I guess).

boogieman

Dalefty;618068" said:

Wine is fine but whiskey's quicker suicide os slow with liquor.





And take it from someone who is going to be on massive dosages of pain killers for the rest of his life and is only in his early 30's now, what you want to be on is oxycontin - hillbilly heroin, and oxynorm - synthetic morphine, in other words opiates, they are much much kinder and gentler on your liver and kidneys, and did I mention how much more fun they make drinking alcohol is, seriously speak to your doctor about them.



DaLefty

No doubt you already know this, but Oxycontin is seriously addictive, you have to be really careful with that stuff. A member of my family was hooked on it for years and got in some very serious trouble through her addiction. Had to go through some heavy duty rehab and was lucky to avoid jail time. Obviously it has a proper medicinal use in your case but I wouldn't be making it out to be a fun drug.

@digitalscream. That's tough news, hope you can get through the problem somehow and carry on gigging.

digitalscream

Thanks, guys

@randomhandclaps - I never used to put pressure on myself (beyond the usual stage nerves), but since this started I've tended to worry about whether it's going to strike again, and I lose my concentration because I'm constantly thinking about how I'm going to deal with it if it happens in the next section etc.

@TTony - yeah, I've been through two physios (referred from the doctors, because they haven't got a clue what's wrong), and while both were confident they could fix it, neither managed to. In fact, one of them screwed it up so badly that I could barely use my arm for nearly a week. As an aside, the one who didn't screw it up tried acupuncture...which made me violently sick as soon as he hit the point he was looking for. He didn't look for it again.

@Emp_Fab - definitely not a pinched/trapped nerve. I've had that before, and this feels...different. It's kind of hard to explain. With a trapped nerve, it's usually a constant thing and the sudden pain is caused by a specific movement; this electric shock thing is incredibly inconsistent. I can do the same thing 20 times in a row and be fine; then I make the exact same movement and there's sudden pain, then I can do it again and it'll be fine.

For context, this all seems to stem from two incidents: the first was about 17 years ago, when I was working in a wool factory. They used to chuck the bales of wool off the top of the truck, and us on the floor would catch them in a trolley and shift them to the back of the warehouse. One of the twats I was working with thought it'd be funny to push me forwards (while holding the trolley) just as a 100kg bale of wool came off the top...I'm lucky it didn't break both my arms, but it dislocated my right shoulder. It went back in OK, and didn't seem to be a problem...now, however, that shoulder dislocates all the time. It's not painful when it does it, but I do have to be careful (obviously) because at that point it's just the muscle, tendons and the tensile strength of my skin that's holding my arm on.

The second incident was one night with a previous band about 5 years ago, when everybody was just gassing and I ended up carrying all my gear, the PA and some of theirs into the rehearsal space. I don't know exactly what did it, but it triggered something akin to tennis elbow; ever since then, I've had this problem with my shoulder and arm.

It also doesn't help that I've got rather an extreme case of winged scapula, which nothing's really managed to fix. This isn't a problem in itself, but just an added complication and a bit of a red herring for a while.

Deijavoo

:-(

Phil_aka_Pip

Man I'm sorry to learn of your plight.

I've often told myself that if I were to lose the digits/limbs necessary for guitar playing, I'd sell 'em all and invest in the biggest baddest computer system to run Sibelius, and loadsa racks full of sound sources so that I could compose and then hear my music being played by orchestras, renaissance ensembles, rock bands or mixtures thereof

thomasross20

Just googled winged scaptula! I have a slight form of that, but then don't most people? Never knew that before!

imalone

Commiserations, hopefully you'll find a way to carry on even if you have to give up on live.

Drew_TNBD

Sorry to hear this dude. I hope it doesn't come to pass!

Paul_C

I've had frozen shoulder in both shoulders, though fortunately not at the same time

The first time I'm fairly sure was due to me doing a lot of bass playing in a short space of time getting up to speed with a new band, no idea what brought on the other one.

It took three or four years to clear up the first one and I still get a bit of pain in it from time to time (long car journeys can be a challenge if I don't remember to keep my shoulder moving occasionally) but mostly I'm ok these days.

I did a bit of bass playing earlier and I'm aware that there's definitely a change in what I can feel through the little finger that I stabbed with a chisel, it's not remotely back to normal but there are certainly signs that things might be improving  

So all in all you have my sympathy, and I hope that you're only going to have to pack things in for a while - never say never !

Hootsmon

ah man....good luck Digi........hope it turns out OK

I think I can recall the Lloyd webber wot plays the cello havin' tae stop for a similar reason

 if a musical career is out of the question you could take up bass

Rocker

@digitalscream, very sorry to read your post mate.  Have you thought about making subtle changes to how you play live?  If you can play at home, could you replicate that situation for a gig?  A drummers stool for example and play seated.  Or lean against a 4 * 12" cab - anything to take the strain off where it hurts.

I hope it all works out well for you.  Don't give up on it.

guitarfishbay

This sucks. Wishing you all the best.

dafuzz

Very best wishes mate

[selfish whinge]

I took a tumble Thursday morning and knackered my back. I've never felt agony like it. I'm pretty much house-bound now and surviving on a diet of paracetamol, ibuprofen and red wine. I can't work, can't play guitar, can't exercise, can barely even move ffs. Took me 45 minutes to get out of bed this morning. I desperately hope it's nothing permanent. God I'm so depressed, thank heaven for PlayStation, it's about all I can do (and post shit on't internetz, natch).

[/selfish whinge]

My point is: I feel your pain bro. I used to do yoga after something similar happened to me a few years ago and it really really helped, so give it a shot maybe? Feel free to blog away, we're all here for you in any case.

ennspek

I wish you all the best.

mellowsun

Bit late to this thread but I was going to ask if you had a winged scapula and you mentioned you had. From what you've also said it sounds like rotator cuff injury as well. A specialist physio may be able to sort this (and the shoulder subluxation) with a combination of manipulation and exercise to build up muscle to support the shoulder joint and the serratus anterior ( iirc) to help with the winged scapula (which is a likely symptom rather than a cause). I know a really good physio in London, he's not cheap but is excellent.

littlegreenman

That's crappy news indeed Lee Hopefully there's something shows up on the MRI that can point the docs to a solution.

I effectively became "that guy" about 7 years ago. Was playing the best I ever had, sometimes even impressing myself which was strange seeing as how I've always been my own worst critic, and then bam! One nasty case of tendonitis later and that was it. 6 weeks doing the "resting it" that the doc said didn't really help at all and my left hand has never been the same since. We've discussed this before at a FEST or two I seem to recall.

Playing a gig is now simply not possible, at best I can play for maybe half an hour before I just can't carry on. Physio, adjusting my technique and even cortisone jabs haven't helped at all. As with yourself, the exploratory surgery isn't an option as they said there's a chance it could exacerbate the condition and I'm not prepared to risk it. I too need to earn money, and won't risk losing what mobility I have left. I can handle only playing a little here and there, couldn't handle losing the ability completely.

Since then I've just been recording my own tunes at home. I can play long enough to lay down a track or two before needing to stop and rest. The occasional one-off at jam nights and GAS-fests are do-able, but regular gigs are off the cards forever. It took a while but I came to accept it and looked for alternatives.  

There is an upside for me though, believe it or not. VST-AS!!!, which is even more bloody expensive than GAS if you go for the really good stuff. Learning to try and properly produce virtual music has been remarkably therapeutic. Composing for string quartets and small orchestral ensembles, ambient stuff with slide guitar, attempts at film-score type stuff, and on a good day if my hand feels OK I'll risk a tentative shred (never anywhere near where I was before the tendonitis, but playing a bit slower seems to be better for my phrasing and tone anyway).

It's really good to read that you're already looking ahead musically, there's always a solution if you look for it. Just goes to show that, just like all the best out there, you're a musician who happens to currently mangle the guitar, rather than a guitar player who happens to mangle music.

One way or another, I get the feeling we've not heard the last of what you have to offer.

thomasross20

That sucks, @littlegreenman

Alnico

littlegreenman said:

That's crappy news indeed Lee Hopefully there's something shows up on the MRI that can point the docs to a solution.

I effectively became "that guy" about 7 years ago. Was playing the best I ever had, sometimes even impressing myself which was strange seeing as how I've always been my own worst critic, and then bam! One nasty case of tendonitis later and that was it. 6 weeks doing the "resting it" that the doc said didn't really help at all and my left hand has never been the same since. We've discussed this before at a FEST or two I seem to recall.

Playing a gig is now simply not possible, at best I can play for maybe half an hour before I just can't carry on. Physio, adjusting my technique and even cortisone jabs haven't helped at all. As with yourself, the exploratory surgery isn't an option as they said there's a chance it could exacerbate the condition and I'm not prepared to risk it. I too need to earn money, and won't risk losing what mobility I have left. I can handle only playing a little here and there, couldn't handle losing the ability completely.

Since then I've just been recording my own tunes at home. I can play long enough to lay down a track or two before needing to stop and rest. The occasional one-off at jam nights and GAS-fests are do-able, but regular gigs are off the cards forever. It took a while but I came to accept it and looked for alternatives.  

There is an upside for me though, believe it or not. VST-AS!!!, which is even more bloody expensive than GAS if you go for the really good stuff. Learning to try and properly produce virtual music has been remarkably therapeutic. Composing for string quartets and small orchestral ensembles, ambient stuff with slide guitar, attempts at film-score type stuff, and on a good day if my hand feels OK I'll risk a tentative shred (never anywhere near where I was before the tendonitis, but playing a bit slower seems to be better for my phrasing and tone anyway).

It's really good to read that you're already looking ahead musically, there's always a solution if you look for it. Just goes to show that, just like all the best out there, you're a musician who happens to currently mangle the guitar, rather than a guitar player who happens to mangle music.

One way or another, I get the feeling we've not heard the last of what you have to offer.

Reading all this hurts a little.

Bruce was always a player i looked up to and i hate hearing about players 'Losing' something of their ability, let alone confidence.

Lee, your work has only ever really impressed me and it's awful to hear you say all this BUT i do admire your outlook on it.

It goes without saying that if there's something i can do you only need ask.

You will have a PM very shortly.

DesVegas

Maybe you could play lap guitar like Ben Harper?

meltedbuzzbox

TTony said:

Have you ever tried a decent physiotherapist?

The trouble with doctors/surgeons is that they're a bit like "I can solve any problem with my hammer".  

I had a gradually prolapsing disc in my spine.  GP referred me to a consultant (surgeon), who did the xrays, diagnosed the problem and explained that the solution was surgery.  I decided to think about it a while before letting a stranger with a sharp knife loose on my spine, but whilst thinking about it, it suddenly got very much worse.

Went to my local physio (who's fixed various bits through the years) just to see if she could relieve some of the agony whilst waiting for a slot on the surgeon's list, and she ended up being able to manipulate the disc back into place.  It took a lot longer (lots of sessions over a 2-3 weeks) than the surgery would have done, but the overall recovery time was a lot quicker.

Neither the GP nor the surgeon mentioned physio as an option because it wasn't a hammer.

There are good ones and really expert ones (and some not particularly useful ones) out there - not all can do the same magic.

Just a thought ...

this is pretty much what I was going to say. The physio got rid of a massive shoulder issue I had that the doctor was hopeless at diagnosing