Line 6 Helix

Chris.B

Duplicate post deleted.

Chris.B

Another duplicate post deleted!

guitarmangler

Just a heads up, line 6 have their usual 30% sale on software (includes native) on until the 12th of July.

Digital_Igloo

monquixote said:

Voxman said:

@TTBZ ;;'re pitch shift Digital Igloo on the Line 6 forum said that:

"Unfortunately, POD Go's semi-fixed DSP allocation wouldn't allow for hardcore polyphonic pitch algorithms. Helix/HX could, but it'd likely take up half of a single DSP (1/2 of HX Effects/Stomp or 1/4 of Helix)."

@Digital_Igloo ;; I find this puzzling.

Digitech, Boss, TC and EHX all have great poly octave pedals and none of them use massive dedicated SHARC processors to my knowledge. I'm pretty sure the algo isn't running in some bespoke ASIC because Mooer ripped off the one for the POG.

Why is it so processor intensive to do something like a POG on the Helix?

Not an engineer, so my answer will have to be "I dunno." I do know that something like the Strymon Big Sky uses a 366MHz SHARC for one reverb and most of their other pedals run one effect on a 266MHz SHARC (vs. HX Stomp's 450MHz SHARC). Some algorithms use WAY more math than others; for example, the reason we don't allow people to swap out POD Go's Preset EQ, Volume Pedal, Wah, and FX Loop block for something else is that they use up around 5% of the SHARC together. So a mono Poly Pitch Wham model could literally take up 10x the amount of DSP of four other blocks combined.

Polyphonic pitch can be tackled in several different ways, but to maintain transparency, you can't just throw a single algorithm at it. You need one for fundamentals and harmonics, one to maintain transients, one to detect which parts of a signal are the fundamental/harmonic/transient, windowing, etc. Then there's intelligent memory allocation and a dozen other things I have very little handle on. Some poly pedals appear to not perform transient detection at all so their pitchshifting sounds less guitar-like and more synth-like (which may or may not be a bad thing). IIRC, the Whammy 5 does use a custom DigiTech DSP EDIT: Freescale DSP with a high MIPS rate.

The bonus is that poly pitch is just the first step. Once you have a set of algorithms that behave and feel right, all sorts of decidedly non-pitch effects (and perhaps features or entire products) could appear on the extended roadmap. DSP is really just a set of complex math-based tools and the bigger the toolbox you have, the wider variety of stuff you can make with it.

PolarityMan

First band practice back yesterday and the 4CM patches Ive made were sounding tasty.

The tap tempo is still driving me freaking mad though.

PolarityMan

Im having trouble getting some of the globally reserved midi CC commands to work..in particular this one from page 58 of the manual:

128 0-63: Oh; 64-127: Nooo Helix achieves self-awareness and starts poking fun of that face you make during the solo

IMC1980

Looking at getting back into doing some live stuff and I am going to try my Stomp into a power amp and then guitar cab; I'll be playing rhythm, so I can have all the sounds I'll need across two patches -clean and dirt - then use the snapshots for anything else. Has anyone here tried a similar set up with the Electro Harmonix Magnum 44? It is way cheaper than the Seymour Duncan Powerstage; I may as well get an amp if I buy that....

JohnCordy

Heard a recent Andy Timmons video, and thought I'd try to tackle his more contemporary tones....here's how I got on...

guitargeek62

IMC1980 said:

Looking at getting back into doing some live stuff and I am going to try my Stomp into a power amp and then guitar cab; I'll be playing rhythm, so I can have all the sounds I'll need across two patches -clean and dirt - then use the snapshots for anything else. Has anyone here tried a similar set up with the Electro Harmonix Magnum 44? It is way cheaper than the Seymour Duncan Powerstage; I may as well get an amp if I buy that....

I run a very similar rig with the Helix full fat, into an AMT Tube-Cake (3w), then a Zilla cab. It sounds bloody great, and the only thing I've done patch-wise is bypass the cab/IR options to make it work.

That way I can simply flick the cab/IR modelling on when needed if playing through headphones, and/or for going direct to FOH. Alternatively I could have added a split and sent one side to the ¼" outputs and into the AMT, and the other to the cab/IR models into the headphone/XLR outputs.


*edit* FWIW, I was looking at the Powerstage too prior to being sold on the AMT. I had the same feeling as you in that I may as well buy an amp rather than the Powerstage, and just use the Helix into an FX loop instead! The PS is a great bit of kit, but doesn't make much financial sense.

IMC1980

guitargeek62 said:

IMC1980 said:

Looking at getting back into doing some live stuff and I am going to try my Stomp into a power amp and then guitar cab; I'll be playing rhythm, so I can have all the sounds I'll need across two patches -clean and dirt - then use the snapshots for anything else. Has anyone here tried a similar set up with the Electro Harmonix Magnum 44? It is way cheaper than the Seymour Duncan Powerstage; I may as well get an amp if I buy that....

I run a very similar rig with the Helix full fat, into an AMT Tube-Cake (3w), then a Zilla cab. It sounds bloody great, and the only thing I've done patch-wise is bypass the cab/IR options to make it work.

That way I can simply flick the cab/IR modelling on when needed if playing through headphones, and/or for going direct to FOH. Alternatively I could have added a split and sent one side to the ¼" outputs and into the AMT, and the other to the cab/IR models into the headphone/XLR outputs.


*edit* FWIW, I was looking at the Powerstage too prior to being sold on the AMT. I had the same feeling as you in that I may as well buy an amp rather than the Powerstage, and just use the Helix into an FX loop instead! The PS is a great bit of kit, but doesn't make much financial sense.

Thanks for this @guitargeek62! Is 3watts loud enough when you're using the cab, or are you mic'd up? 44 watts seemed good for live and the price. 

kennedydream1980

IMC1980 said:

guitargeek62 said:

IMC1980 said:

Looking at getting back into doing some live stuff and I am going to try my Stomp into a power amp and then guitar cab; I'll be playing rhythm, so I can have all the sounds I'll need across two patches -clean and dirt - then use the snapshots for anything else. Has anyone here tried a similar set up with the Electro Harmonix Magnum 44? It is way cheaper than the Seymour Duncan Powerstage; I may as well get an amp if I buy that....

I run a very similar rig with the Helix full fat, into an AMT Tube-Cake (3w), then a Zilla cab. It sounds bloody great, and the only thing I've done patch-wise is bypass the cab/IR options to make it work.

That way I can simply flick the cab/IR modelling on when needed if playing through headphones, and/or for going direct to FOH. Alternatively I could have added a split and sent one side to the ¼" outputs and into the AMT, and the other to the cab/IR models into the headphone/XLR outputs.


*edit* FWIW, I was looking at the Powerstage too prior to being sold on the AMT. I had the same feeling as you in that I may as well buy an amp rather than the Powerstage, and just use the Helix into an FX loop instead! The PS is a great bit of kit, but doesn't make much financial sense.

Thanks for this @guitargeek62! Is 3watts loud enough when you're using the cab, or are you mic'd up? 44 watts seemed good for live and the price. 

This might be worth consideration as well.

https://m.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_custom_line_thunder_99.htm?o=1&search=1594224067

John_A

I love the Magnum 44, definitely loud enough for a pub gig unless you are in a VERY loud band.  The little 3W AMT is surprisingly loud, enough for on-stage monitoring at a gig in a not very loud band certainly, would struggle if it was your only backline

IMC1980

John_A said:

I love the Magnum 44, definitely loud enough for a pub gig unless you are in a VERY loud band.  The little 3W AMT is surprisingly loud, enough for on-stage monitoring at a gig in a not very loud band certainly, would struggle if it was your only backline

Thanks @John_A, good to know. 

kennedydream1980 said:

IMC1980 said:

guitargeek62 said:

IMC1980 said:

Looking at getting back into doing some live stuff and I am going to try my Stomp into a power amp and then guitar cab; I'll be playing rhythm, so I can have all the sounds I'll need across two patches -clean and dirt - then use the snapshots for anything else. Has anyone here tried a similar set up with the Electro Harmonix Magnum 44? It is way cheaper than the Seymour Duncan Powerstage; I may as well get an amp if I buy that....

I run a very similar rig with the Helix full fat, into an AMT Tube-Cake (3w), then a Zilla cab. It sounds bloody great, and the only thing I've done patch-wise is bypass the cab/IR options to make it work.

That way I can simply flick the cab/IR modelling on when needed if playing through headphones, and/or for going direct to FOH. Alternatively I could have added a split and sent one side to the ¼" outputs and into the AMT, and the other to the cab/IR models into the headphone/XLR outputs.


*edit* FWIW, I was looking at the Powerstage too prior to being sold on the AMT. I had the same feeling as you in that I may as well buy an amp rather than the Powerstage, and just use the Helix into an FX loop instead! The PS is a great bit of kit, but doesn't make much financial sense.

Thanks for this @guitargeek62! Is 3watts loud enough when you're using the cab, or are you mic'd up? 44 watts seemed good for live and the price. 

This might be worth consideration as well.

https://m.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_custom_line_thunder_99.htm?o=1&search=1594224067

Sounds good, as long as they have worked out the electric shock issues!

guitargeek62

IMC1980 said:

guitargeek62 said:

IMC1980 said:

Looking at getting back into doing some live stuff and I am going to try my Stomp into a power amp and then guitar cab; I'll be playing rhythm, so I can have all the sounds I'll need across two patches -clean and dirt - then use the snapshots for anything else. Has anyone here tried a similar set up with the Electro Harmonix Magnum 44? It is way cheaper than the Seymour Duncan Powerstage; I may as well get an amp if I buy that....

I run a very similar rig with the Helix full fat, into an AMT Tube-Cake (3w), then a Zilla cab. It sounds bloody great, and the only thing I've done patch-wise is bypass the cab/IR options to make it work.

That way I can simply flick the cab/IR modelling on when needed if playing through headphones, and/or for going direct to FOH. Alternatively I could have added a split and sent one side to the ¼" outputs and into the AMT, and the other to the cab/IR models into the headphone/XLR outputs.


*edit* FWIW, I was looking at the Powerstage too prior to being sold on the AMT. I had the same feeling as you in that I may as well buy an amp rather than the Powerstage, and just use the Helix into an FX loop instead! The PS is a great bit of kit, but doesn't make much financial sense.

Thanks for this @guitargeek62! Is 3watts loud enough when you're using the cab, or are you mic'd up? 44 watts seemed good for live and the price. 

Can't honestly say, but I trust @John_A's judgment! It seems ample for jams/backline, but I think I'd still mic it up and/or run the secondary outputs direct to the mixer/FoH

fnpt

Does Native run as a stand-alone as well or just within a daw?

TheBigDipper

fnpt said:

Does Native run as a stand-alone as well or just within a daw?

It's only intended to be run as a plug-in, but you can get apps (some are free) that act as wrappers around VSTs and let you run them quasi stand alone. 

fnpt

TheBigDipper said:

fnpt said:

Does Native run as a stand-alone as well or just within a daw?

It's only intended to be run as a plug-in, but you can get apps (some are free) that act as wrappers around VSTs and let you run them quasi stand alone. 

thanks

simonhpieman

simonhpieman said:

Thanks for that @duotone . It went back to the seller on Monday. On Tuesday he sends me a video with it plugged into his laptop and it booting clean up.

Sadly he didn't attempt to turn it on without it attached to the PC to replicate my issue but he got it working immediately. No idea if that was due to his laptop having started the update and therefore having to finish it but I couldn't get the bloody thing to do anything. I tried what you did several times on several computers and no joy. It was totally unresponsive and I could never get it to be recognised. Always immediately showing the same building MUI message.

I had a -7 whereas I think you had a :-3? Must have been different. I couldn't get it into any kind of update mode or anything. It did exactly the same thing every time I turned it on regardless of what I did.

Anyway. The seller got it working and its on its way back to me. He showed me that it also boots without being connected to the PC now, too (again, first thing I tried when it arrived, same building MUI message).

Must just state that Adam the seller has been faultlessly helpful throughout. No idea if he's on here, he's not mentioned it. But he's been helpful far beyond what's been expected (and he's been in hospital part of the time). Just one of those things.

Fingers crossed that's the end of it and I can finally do some playing when it arrives!

So, it arrived today. Despite seeing the seller's videos of it working with and without USB connection, it's arrived today and on first power up, not connected to PC, I've got the same "building MUI" message flashing and little red -7 at the top.

Is it possible the flash memory has been shaken out of place en route or something following a courier impact? And by coincidence was shaken back into place when I sent it back but shook out again on it's way back to me?

I really feel like me and the seller can't catch a break, here!

duotone

simonhpieman said:

simonhpieman said:

Thanks for that @duotone . It went back to the seller on Monday. On Tuesday he sends me a video with it plugged into his laptop and it booting clean up.

Sadly he didn't attempt to turn it on without it attached to the PC to replicate my issue but he got it working immediately. No idea if that was due to his laptop having started the update and therefore having to finish it but I couldn't get the bloody thing to do anything. I tried what you did several times on several computers and no joy. It was totally unresponsive and I could never get it to be recognised. Always immediately showing the same building MUI message.

I had a -7 whereas I think you had a :-3? Must have been different. I couldn't get it into any kind of update mode or anything. It did exactly the same thing every time I turned it on regardless of what I did.

Anyway. The seller got it working and its on its way back to me. He showed me that it also boots without being connected to the PC now, too (again, first thing I tried when it arrived, same building MUI message).

Must just state that Adam the seller has been faultlessly helpful throughout. No idea if he's on here, he's not mentioned it. But he's been helpful far beyond what's been expected (and he's been in hospital part of the time). Just one of those things.

Fingers crossed that's the end of it and I can finally do some playing when it arrives!

So, it arrived today. Despite seeing the seller's videos of it working with and without USB connection, it's arrived today and on first power up, not connected to PC, I've got the same "building MUI" message flashing and little red -7 at the top.

Is it possible the flash memory has been shaken out of place en route or something following a courier impact? And by coincidence was shaken back into place when I sent it back but shook out again on it's way back to me?

I really feel like me and the seller can't catch a break, here!

I don’t know anything about the Helix internals but would think its unlikely. @simonhpieman ;

siremoon

simonhpieman said:

simonhpieman said:

Thanks for that @duotone . It went back to the seller on Monday. On Tuesday he sends me a video with it plugged into his laptop and it booting clean up.

Sadly he didn't attempt to turn it on without it attached to the PC to replicate my issue but he got it working immediately. No idea if that was due to his laptop having started the update and therefore having to finish it but I couldn't get the bloody thing to do anything. I tried what you did several times on several computers and no joy. It was totally unresponsive and I could never get it to be recognised. Always immediately showing the same building MUI message.

I had a -7 whereas I think you had a :-3? Must have been different. I couldn't get it into any kind of update mode or anything. It did exactly the same thing every time I turned it on regardless of what I did.

Anyway. The seller got it working and its on its way back to me. He showed me that it also boots without being connected to the PC now, too (again, first thing I tried when it arrived, same building MUI message).

Must just state that Adam the seller has been faultlessly helpful throughout. No idea if he's on here, he's not mentioned it. But he's been helpful far beyond what's been expected (and he's been in hospital part of the time). Just one of those things.

Fingers crossed that's the end of it and I can finally do some playing when it arrives!

So, it arrived today. Despite seeing the seller's videos of it working with and without USB connection, it's arrived today and on first power up, not connected to PC, I've got the same "building MUI" message flashing and little red -7 at the top.

Is it possible the flash memory has been shaken out of place en route or something following a courier impact? And by coincidence was shaken back into place when I sent it back but shook out again on it's way back to me?

I really feel like me and the seller can't catch a break, here!

Amazing how it works perfectly when in his possession and not at all when in yours.  So to paraphrase Conan Doyle when all logical explanations have been eliminated then what's left must be the truth.  My supposition therefore is that the seller has two units.  One works and one doesn't and he's trying to offload the latter.  Everything he's shown you on video is the good unit.  My advice remains that you should either give up and get your money back or contact Frank Richotte at Line 6.