The Rugby Union Thread

hywelg

Wales playing rugby league again  and boringly. Can I stand another 60 minutes of this....

digitalscream

hywelg said:

Wales playing rugby league again  and boringly. Can I stand another 60 minutes of this....

I can't stand another 50 minutes of ITV's web player. They've replayed the try three times and I still haven't seen it, because it keeps stuttering and losing it.

From what I have seen, Italy are looking surprisingly good. They're certainly making more of an effort at the breakdown that England did yesterday...

hywelg

Italy certainly look more intent on winning. Wales appear to want just not to lose but have no idea how to win.

Gassage

Parisse v Wales is actually very evenly matched.

If there's a better player in the world I haven't seen him.

koneguitarist

Parisse is part of the issue, same as when Wales had Shane Williams and Ireland had BOD all the other players look to him to do something instead of doing it them selves. 
Wales were awful today as per usual, but not helped by a ref allowing Italy to keep giving penalties away without real sanction. 
Welsh players getting very frustrated. 15 penalties against Italy before a yellow card, which killed off the game before it got started. 
At least we now can see that Wales need Sam Davies to start, and another 13 with better hands as JD seems to be getting worse. 

exocet

Well it wasn't pretty but we got there in the end. Italy at home is a stiff test nowadays, especially for the first 25 mins. I expect Ireland will find it tough going to begin with but it will be interesting to see how they do in 2nd half.
Sam Davies did pretty well, glad he finally got the opportunity.
Don't think any other team is going to be fearing Wales though....perhaps that'll help us

hywelg

Yes the scoreline flattered a very poor performance by Wales. Absolutely no ideas in the first half and really only started to play better when they realised if they threw the ball around they might get the 4 tries. If they had started with that attitude, like Scotland did yesterday, I might not have been bored to tears for 40 minutes. 

England by 20 next w/e.

koneguitarist

Wales looked utterly bewildered at times, with a ruck going on and Rhys Webb grabbing ball in ruck, so many players were just standing there. No one running lines, no one calling for ball, just no clue about what to do. 
Now this has to be down to coaches putting specific orders down for plays in field positions instead of players looking to see what's there in front of them and playing accordingly. 
With players running off the ball, 9 has more options to pass but also to run himself as opposition players are lining up for incoming players or box kicks as the defence wall will have to turn. 
Rugby is not rocket science but some of these Welsh players make it look like it is. 

fretmeister

Sodding Leicester.

Saints asked them to win today.  But nooooooooo. Couldn't even do that for their favourite neighbour.

crunchman

Looking at what Wales have been reduced to, I'm worried about the Lions in the summer.  Can someone find a way to get rid of Gatland?

Gulliver

digitalscream said:
I thought Angry Mike was pretty much anonymous today....  I can't get over the fact that he always slows right down before the contact...

I think after getting mega-KO'd a couple of years ago he's lost some of the fight he used to have. Hopefully the Brown of old comes back soon!

I thought Wood yesterday was poor - I've never seen him do anything useful in an England shirt.  Youngzzz was typically slow and predictable - I love Danny Care's style of play and he always mixes things up off the bench.  I like the impact he makes off the bench, but I'm not sure he's the right player to start at 9.

Gassage

Just watched the game again; France's juggernauts were so big that I'm amazed they weren't searched for illegal immigrants at Dover.

digitalscream

Gassage said:

Just watched the game again; France's juggernauts were so big that I'm amazed they weren't searched for illegal immigrants at Dover.

Quite honestly, that match was a bit like watching the end of Rocky IV. I'd be surprised if any of of the England team can move today.

sev112

It's always funny seeing how different people see the same match

i thought every time Italy did something it was a straight penalty
everytime Wales did something the ref kept saying "don't do that, don't do that" and never pinged them 

anyway

my abiding emotion of the first 3 matches is that if that same ref gets another game I'm going to watch it with the sound off. He has taken "communicating refs" to a new level.  My god, he never shut up!

fretmeister

@Gassage ;

do some digging - gossip at Saints is that Biggar wants to move to Saints but the WRU are getting in the way.

Caffeined

Was at work today and forgot to tape the Wales Italy game. ARSE!

England were poor, but somehow ground out a win. Louis Picamoles was outstanding.
Was over the moon with Scotland beating Ireland.

First week of 6 Nations is usually scrappy. Will be interesting to see how the teams play next weekend.

Hating these new tackles laws. I understand why they have implimented them, but they make a mockery of the contact area at times.

crunchman

Gulliver said:

digitalscream said:
I thought Angry Mike was pretty much anonymous today....  I can't get over the fact that he always slows right down before the contact...

I think after getting mega-KO'd a couple of years ago he's lost some of the fight he used to have. Hopefully the Brown of old comes back soon!

It's not just that. He has actually slowed down.  He's going to be 32 later this year.

Caffeined said:

Hating these new tackles laws. I understand why they have implimented them, but they make a mockery of the contact area at times.

There has got to be some happy medium somewhere between the ridiculousness we are seeing now, and NZ getting away with driving BOD's head into the ground and getting away with it.

May's sinbin yesterday and the penalty that made it 9-7 to Wales today were both ridiculous.

scrumhalf

Gulliver said:

digitalscream said:
I thought Angry Mike was pretty much anonymous today....  I can't get over the fact that he always slows right down before the contact...

I think after getting mega-KO'd a couple of years ago he's lost some of the fight he used to have. Hopefully the Brown of old comes back soon!

I thought Wood yesterday was poor - I've never seen him do anything useful in an England shirt.  Youngzzz was typically slow and predictable - I love Danny Care's style of play and he always mixes things up off the bench.  I like the impact he makes off the bench, but I'm not sure he's the right player to start at 9.

We have two scrumhalves at Wasps, Joe Simpson and Dan Robson, either of whom wouldn't disgrace the shirt. Simpson is so quick he bends time, and it's only a matter of time until Robson is an automatic pick for England.

Biased? Me?

fretmeister

Oooo!

Aussie Rob Horne has signed for Saints.

Gassage

Here's my match analysis, going up shortly:

Good sides have the happy knack of winning ugly.
 
In England’s first game of the 2017 6 Nations, the hosts did exactly that, getting the job done for their 19-16 win over France, despite a mightily effective showing from the juggernauts in the French pack.
 
The result leaves England as joint top of the table, but Eddie Jones’ rugby aspirations are much greater than the performance offered yesterday and it’s a barometer of England’s desire that this match will be considered a very average performance.
 
What went wrong?
 
From the very first moment of the match, France showed an ability to compete and bully on the gainline that few sides have managed. Fielding a side of such size and muscle one wondered if the UK Border Officials searched their juggernauts sock tops for illegal immigrants at Dover, France refused to yield in areas of contact that England have bossed for the last year or so.
 
Looking at the hosts’ selectorial issues, it’s clear the back row had a degree of imbalance; shorn of both Robshaw and Billy Vunipola, that essential metre of momentum in the collision was ceded to France time and time again. This both slowed England’s ability to recycle, which in turn stopped their support players running onto the ball at pace and in waves of support, as witnessed in recent tests.
 
France, with an advantage of some 3kgs per man in both the forwards and backs, hammered England’s attacks backwards time and time again and if the visitors had shown more ruthlessness in finishing, the game would have been settled by 60 minutes in France’s favour.
 
Remi Lamerat and Scott Spedding were thorns in England’s side all evening, combining aggressive running with a variety of attacking incursions. Their enthusiasm to handle the ball, whilst commendable, showed a lack of clarity of thinking, as time and time again France ran the ball in areas of the pitch where they may well have been better advised to play for territory and get themselves up into the red zone, the scoring area of the pitch.
 
However, the best sides find a way to win; a method with which to keep the scoreboard moving. Micro incidents (such as Elliott Daly’s 50m penalty) chip away at both the points tally and the confidence of their opponents and the setpiece, an area where England delivered well at scrumtime and gained marginal superiority in the line out, yielded enough scoring opportunities to keep England in the game.
 
Rugby is very much a 23 man game these days, and nothing highlighted that better than the relative impact of both teams benches.

England, able to bring on 140 caps with the introduction of Care and Haskell, upped both their tempo and physicality. Haskell in particular, a man who has played last than half a game of rugby this year, changed the dynamics completely as he took into his own hands England’s lack of power in the contact and steamed around the field like a hippo on heat.
 
That power was crucial in setting Ben Te’o’s try up; Haskell’s bulk removed three of the French defenders, all committed to bringing the big Wasp down; France’s back row, shorn of the dominant Chouly, now replaced by the powerpuff Loann Goujon, simply had no legs to get around to defend the openside flank and Te’o dotted down almost untouched.
Moving forward, both teams will learn lessons and both will be upbeat about areas of their performances.
 
France are very close to being a real force; Kevin Gourdon, reminiscent of the great Olivier Magne, was a revelation for their support work and new-found continuity of play. Guy Noves too will have noted the difference Rabah Slimini made when he came on for the man mountain Antonio after 60 mins.
 
Factor back in Wesley Fofana in the 12 berth and you have a side that will (and have already) challenged the best.
 
What of England? Well, Eddie Jones learns quickly. For a man that loves his cricketing analogies, he’ll take a lot of inspiration from the words of former England skipper, Mike Brearley, who once said ‘saying a winning side can’t be changed is as daft as saying a losing side should always be changed.’ He will look long and hard about the carrying power in the back row and it’s almost certain a change will be made, whether that be Haskell returning at the expense of Tom Wood or  by moving Itoje to locking the scrum from his foray into the back row.
 
Itoje, who has been something approaching mercurial  in his career to date, saw clearly the step up in carry workrate needed to play in the back row. He will learn for sure, but Cardiff in Feburary is no place for scholars and it’s odds on that he’ll return to the engine room at the probable expense of Courtney Lawes.
 
Mike Brown’s place too seems under threat, with Jones almost desperate to get his prodigy Elliot Daly into the 15 shirt.
 
It remains to be seen if England can fully overcome the imbalances caused injury and unavailability. However, one thing is for sure; when sides play as poorly as England (by their lofty standards) did and still win, the rest of the rugby world need to be scared. Very scared.