Floyd Rose Edge balancing issue

imalrightjack

Firstly for the Floyd Rose haters, I'm pretty much with you but anyway...

Picked up an Ibanez RG570 (I think!) today and have stripped the strings, cleaned up and put gauge 10s on.  Unfortunately, and predictably, the tremolo angled itself way up towards the nut.  I've tightened the springs but they're now nearly all the way in and it's not quite level.  Do I need more springs or is it okay to keep going all the way (oo-er)?

Any advice welcome.  Intonation seems to be going towards the 24th fret on the lower strings now too

FelineGuitars

Angle the outside springs inward on the claw, and crank it a bit more - you still have a few mm to play with

imalrightjack

@FelineGuitars - do you mean physically change which hooks they're on?

stonevibe

Put some new springs in and replace the old ones. 

You can get higher tension spring for these.

imalrightjack

stonevibe said:

Put some new springs in and replace the old ones. 

You can get higher tension spring for these.

Any recommended stockists or spring lengths? Thanks!

stonevibe

I usually scope Ebay first or go to my local store and see what they have in.

You can pay a premium for 'posh springs' as in 'high tension',sets. However I often find I can pick up a decent tension set at my local store.

FelineGuitars

Yes - change the hooks - put them on 2 and 4 instead of 1 and 5 - it will adda little more tension

Then retune, and start tightening the two screws if the trem needs pulling down more 

Each time you tweak you'll need to retune

If all that fails by all means look for new springs

You can benefit from fresh springs (they do age and lose certain eleastic qualities)

But you shouldn't need more than 3 with 10s 

ICBM

I'm not a 'fan' of angling the springs like that, since it forces them to try to rotate on the pivot points when you use the trem and can cause squeaking noises or tuning problems sometimes.

I would get new shorter or higher tension springs. The ones in there don't look like a proper set anyway, the top one is a different colour and the middle one looks like it has an unusually long pin - unless it's dangerously close to popping out of the block. There should be a metal clamp strip which screws into the other two holes to hold them in place, which is missing.

You can still go a little tighter on the claw screws too, probably - just stop if it feels like they've come to the ends of the drilled holes in the body, or you could possibly spilt it. (Usually up into the pickup cavity, if it happens.)

FelineGuitars

The clamp strip didn't always get ftted to all RGs - you always saw it on the Jems though.

Don't know that I share your opinin over the angled springs - not encountered probs myself but if you can get it to work with the straight and just winding on more tension then go for it.

I've even lengthened the trem spring cavity in the past where more tension was required on some guitars - just a bit but enough to make it work.

You can always lift up the neck pickup to see if the screws from the claw emerge there as like ICBM says on a 24 fretter the neck pickup cavity does get close

Maynehead

Another vote for 2 extra springs, IMO it's the "proper" way to solve this problem (provided you have retuned the strings back to pitch after tightening the screws). After attaching the extra springs you will need to back those screws out quite a long way, probably about 1/2 - 3/4 inch. Just be careful you don't screw them all the way out.

Fuzzdog

Also make sure you're taking the right reference for the trem being level - a lot of Ibanez trems look like they're tilted up at an angle when the knife edge angle is actually dead on.

Cabicular

I agree the springs look past their sell by
I've never had problems angling springs but I have had return problems with old springs
Im a heavy duty Floyd user (80s metal band) so I have to deal with them on a daily basis
Felines suggestion will get you through the moment but get some new springs on it (or even better if it's an ibanez edge get a replacement) Schallers are good if you don't want to go full price FR
Balancing these is harder than it looks. It takes a bit of prediction when tightening the screws and tuning up
It's amazing what a quarter turn will do (as the actress said to the bishop)

FelineGuitars

NO NO NO to ADDING extra springs You will lose responsiveness and in the end all 4 or 5 springs will end up compressed and unstretched in the zero position and that leads to failure to return to pitch on a floating tremolo system.
On a floating trem it is ESSENTIAL that the trem springs are still stretched somewhat at the zero point.When released, the trem will then pass through the zero point in the same way that a pendulum swings and eventually will come to rest accurately so the strings are in pitch. It all happens probably too quick to really see it , but it is what happens.
It's only a set of 10s he's got on there - not 12s or 13s (I'm assuming regular tuning or Eb at worst)Stick with 3 and have them under greater tension
If you feel the ned to replace - get Schaller or Gotoh ones (or Fender) - should cot no more than £10
The original Ibanez Edge trem is a great trem as long as the knife edges are in good shape and the mounting posts aren't chewed up.
Remember also that the mounting posts have a hidden grub screw down the centre of them that locks the whole system - takes a 1.5mm allen key. Remember to undo it before making any height adjustments and then lock it again when completed.
It makes the posts even more stable.
But you may not need to replace  - tweak it first

imalrightjack

Wow, lots to digest. Will I need to adjust the height? And which are the mounting posts?

Lastly, when is the Edge deemed straight?

DLM

Read http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/ before doing anything else.

MattFGBI

You need 3 bits of wood, then you can bin the springs. 

imalrightjack

DLM;765667" said:

Read http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/ before doing anything else.

@DLM That looks a great resource. Thanks.

DLM

Rich knows his onions.

imalrightjack

@FelineGuitars - I'm a bit confused by the 1.5mm grub screw in the tremolo mounting posts.  In terms of tightening, is there a point they should stop moving?  They get to the point the allen key becomes unremovable, so I'm a bit confused.  All in, I've learned quite a lot from this experience, although I'm yet to get the intonation on the low E right, which oscillates horrible past the 12th fret.

stonevibe

The grub screws lock the post into place by forcing the thread of the main post to make contact with the mounting stud and 'locks' them into place, so that they won't drift / move once you have set your desired trem height.

ICBM

imalrightjack said:

All in, I've learned quite a lot from this experience, although I'm yet to get the intonation on the low E right, which oscillates horrible past the 12th fret.

Have you got the pickups too close to the strings? (Neck pickup especially.)