Would a pine neck be strong enough?

DartmoorHedgehog

I'm thinking about building a simple slide guitar, inspired by the "make a slide instrument" challenge.  I've got a three string cigar box, so I'm planning something simple but a step up from that.  Probably five strings for open G (remove the bottom string of normal guitar).

I've got loads of 2x4 building pine lying around so that looks tempting for a cheap (free) source of wood for some sort of neck-through design with glued on "wings".  But I've never heard of anybody using pine for a guitar neck.  I want it to be a normal guitar type neck shape (not a square lap steel thing) so my question really is will a pine neck be strong enough to hold the tension of five strings or should I be looking for a piece of hardwood?  My gut feeling is that it should be OK, but I've never heard of a pine guitar neck...

And another thing...  seeing as I'm not intending to fret this (will be slide only) will I get away with no truss rod or strengthening strut? (my three string doesn't have anything like that, but it's under much lower string tension)

octatonic

Guitar necks are generally made from hardwoods.

Pine is a softwood.

I probably need to explain the differences between the two- contrary to popular belief hardwoods are not always hard and softwoods are not always soft.

For instance, balsa is actually a hardwood.

Hardwoods are angiosperms that contain vessel elements for the transportation of water- these vessel element appears as pores in the wood.

Guitar necks are generally made from maple or mahogany- both hardwoods- that have a higher density than most other softwoods.

Softwoods are gymnosperms, which have medullary rays and tracheids transport water and produce sap. They do not have pores and have a lower density than most hardwoods.

Pine is more commonly used as an electric guitar body, than a neck.

It is sometimes used as acoustic guitar brace material, or, more rarely, as an acoustic guitar soundboard.

So... proceed with caution- you might want to consider some carbon fibre reinforcement rods, along with a truss rod.

Andyjr1515

There is also pine...and pine....  North American White Pine tends to be fine grained and stable (assuming it's been properly matured) but constructional pine is usually Deal, easy to work but not overly stable.  It also tends not to be matured long enough for good enough results on this sort of thing.  Personally, I wouldn't use Deal for a neck... 

BigMonka

Have you seen the build which @Serratus has done for the build challenge? It's seriously impressive looking and uses pine from Wickes. It doesn't look like it's got strings on yet though, so time will tell if it's strong enough! Linky link is here: http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/66998/serratus-s-2016-build-challenge/p1

DartmoorHedgehog

octatonic said:

I probably need to explain the differences between the two

Wow :-O

But thanks folks.  It is building pine I have rather than nice tight-grained stuff, which is why I was a bit cautious and wondering if I should use hardwood.  But on the other hand it looks like Serratus is risking using building pine on his (thanks @BigMonka - I had read some of that thread but not remembered the pine neck for some reason).  I suppose the risk is that it may warp over time rather than snap under the string tension as such.

Think I'll probably err on the safe side and see what else I can find.

WezV

Andyjr1515 said:

There is also pine...and pine....  North American White Pine tends to be fine grained and stable (assuming it's been properly matured) but constructional pine is usually Deal, easy to work but not overly stable.  It also tends not to be matured long enough for good enough results on this sort of thing.  Personally, I wouldn't use Deal for a neck... 

What he said

I know @melvynhiscock has talked about the use of Douglas fir before

I have both a douglas fir, and port orford cedar neck blank in my collection, but have not yet built with them.

Like any wood, you need to judge the piece you have in front of you and decide if you can help it work in any way.   If its straight, quartersawn  and tight grained  it might just be okay.   But if you are unsure then don't risk it or use CF bars as extra insurance

its a largely untested use of softwoods so don't be expecting any of us to be able to tell you it will definitely work

ICBM

It's fairly easy to set in a flat steel reinforcement bar - edgeways on, it doesn't need to be very wide - at least if you're fitting a separate fingerboard.

DartmoorHedgehog

WezV said:

its a largely untested use of softwoods so don't be expecting any of us to be able to tell you it will definitely work

No worries, people's opinions are useful even if there's no conclusive answer

I'd certainly only ever seen hardwood necks before, which is what made me ask.  I think perhaps my "is it strong enough" question wasn't really the right wording - the risk is more to do with stability and warping rather than actually snapping isn't it?

Anyway, in light of what's been said (and despite @serratus's efforts) I'll see if I can find something more suitable.  I've not made a neck before so I may as well give myself a reasonable chance of success by starting with a half decent lump of wood!

Andyjr1515

DartmoorHedgehog said:

 I think perhaps my "is it strong enough" question wasn't really the right wording - the risk is more to do with stability and warping rather than actually snapping isn't it?

Yes - exactly this....

DartmoorHedgehog

ICBM said:

It's fairly easy to set in a flat steel reinforcement bar - edgeways on, it doesn't need to be very wide - at least if you're fitting a separate fingerboard.

I suppose I should probably do that even if I use hardwood.  I was going to keep it really simple and not bother with a fingerboard but it would make sense to put a bar of some sort in and then cover it with a "fingerboard".  I'm not intending to make it fretable (if that's a word), just draw lines where the frets would be as a guide, but using a fingerboard and reinforcement rod would probably be sensible.  Making a straight channel could be interesting with the tools I've got though... chisel very carefully, or perhaps lash up some sort of jig for the dremel?  Angle grinder? (mostly joking on that one, although...)

octatonic

Don't use your dremel to route the truss rod channel.

It will burn out the motor.

Get a 1/4" router- they can be had for not much money.

ICBM

You could do it with a tenon saw fairly easily, and then strip out the centre part with a small chisel. Or a circular saw if you do it first so you can use the fence to keep it straight - the blade might even be the right width to do it in one pass if you pick the right steel bar.

octatonic

If it is pine then a scalpel and a ruler might work.

Serratus

Yeah, mine is definitely an experiment! I wouldn't suggest using pine of you've not built necks before.

I've built lots of necks and have played it as safe as I can; the pine is kiln dried and was made from the straightest pieces I could find, I've used four pieces on edge, it has a thick mahogany fingerboard, and it is a thick neck (over 1" thick all the way up)! So I'm hoping those factors (along with the truss rod) will be enough to keep it straight and level

DartmoorHedgehog

octatonic said:

Don't use your dremel to route the truss rod channel.

It will burn out the motor.

Get a 1/4" router- they can be had for not much money.

You're probably right if I tried to do it in one go, yes.  I know routers can be had pretty cheaply but I'd rather do it with what I've got if possible (although I'd probably use it again if I had to buy one).

But...

ICBM said:

You could do it with a tenon saw fairly easily, and then strip out the centre part with a small chisel. Or a circular saw if you do it first so you can use the fence to keep it straight - the blade might even be the right width to do it in one pass if you pick the right steel bar.

I do have a circular saw that I'd forgotten about (it's the inlaws' but has ended up stashed at my place).  I've only ever used it for trimming doors but I think the cutting depth can be set so that's not a bad idea at all...

DartmoorHedgehog

Serratus said:

Yeah, mine is definitely an experiment! I wouldn't suggest using pine of you've not built necks before.

Thanks for the comment.  Think I'm going to find a bit of hardwood rather than risking the pine, at least this time.

Jez6345789

The only Pine necks I have seen are the Rick Kelly Telecaster and they use 200 year old salvage lumber so all the resin at that point is crystallised and the one I tried was full on fat end of the baseball bat. Well it was for my girly hands :-)