What happened to the FX emporium?

UnclePsychosis

This is my suggestion for how the rules could be clearer:

Additional Rules for the Classifieds

The Fretboard is not responsible for transactions - the buyer and seller are. Be careful and be sensible. PayPal Gift (PPG) is for use between trusted parties.

These rules apply in addition to our standard forum rules.

Posters that breach these rules will have their adverts deleted and may have their access to the emporium removed. Repeat/severe infringements may lead to a complete ban from the site.

1. You must post an asking price or ideal trades. 
2. Do not bump more frequently than every 48 hours.
3. DO NOT delete the price or any other content, ever. When appropriate, update the thread to include "SOLD" (or whatever is appropriate) in the title and opening post. 
4. If you’re listing multiple items in the same section, do it in one thread, not one thread per item
5. Do not post items for sale that are not what they appear to be (fake, counterfeit, etc). Disclaimers have no effect, it is still illegal to sell such items. Yes, this includes your partscaster with a Fender logo or Chibson with a Gibson logo.
6. If you advertise on here, post the details on here. Posts that are little more than links to eBay (etc) will be deleted.
7. Flag it if you genuinely think that an ad is dodgy or breaks the rules, don't harass the seller on the thread. Criticising prices counts as harassment   

Here are some general guidelines for the emporium:

• Before you post an ad, look at other ads. Match, or better, that standard.
• You should post some good quality pictures.
• You should not post your address, email address or phone number.

The Classifieds are intended for personal use. If you are a business/dealer contact me to discuss how who could get involved here.

fretmeister

5. .... plus 'disclaimers have no effect, it is still illegal to sell such items.'

guitarfishbay

That looks decent.  I'd add a clarification point that a licensed neck with an official logo (Fender etc) still counts as a fake despite disclaimers so cannot be sold (or words to that effect).  I think there has been some confusion about licensed parts/selling of partscasters.

UnclePsychosis

fretmeister said:

5. .... plus 'disclaimers have no effect, it is still illegal to sell such items.'

Added that.

UnclePsychosis

guitarfishbay said:

That looks decent.  I'd add a clarification point that a licensed neck with an official logo (Fender etc) still counts as a fake despite disclaimers so cannot be sold (or words to that effect).  I think there has been some confusion about licensed parts/selling of partscasters.

Added something to that effect. It probably needs a proper explanation in a thread and a link to it.

Paul_C

If people spend enough time on the forum they're bound to see a thread where someone gets irate because they didn't read the rules before transgressing them, and so learn from that

Sporky

I think Uncle Psychosis's suggested rearrangement of the rules/guidelines is very sensible.

I am less certain that it'll result in fewer people breaking the rules, but it seems worth trying.

digitalscream

Sporky said:

I think Uncle Psychosis's suggested rearrangement of the rules/guidelines is very sensible.

I am less certain that it'll result in fewer people breaking the rules, but it seems worth trying.

The central problem is that people don't read them anyway. In fact, regardless of how obvious we make it, people still completely ignore the warnings.

The eagle-eyed among you might notice the common element here: "people".

Drew_TNBD

https://snowballsandsyndicalism.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/nogod_nomasters_anarchism-sized_.gif

stickyfiddle

I suspect the issue is nothing to do with the forum or the rules, but that we're all used to blindly clicking "I Agree" to everything on websites and software agreements that actually reading the rules doesn't even cross most people's minds (myself included). 

We've had 20 years of clicking yes without reading the terms for Windows, OSX, Office, itunes, firefox, chrome, gmail, facebook, twitter, amazon, ebay, paypal, PSN, Xbox Live,  etc.  How many actual human beings (not lawyers!) have actually read every word of even one of the above?

TTony

Drew_fx said:

Go Wolfie !!!

Drew_TNBD

eheheh

BloodEagle

stickyfiddle said:

I suspect the issue is nothing to do with the forum or the rules, but that we're all used to blindly clicking "I Agree" to everything on websites and software agreements that actually reading the rules doesn't even cross most people's minds (myself included). 

We've had 20 years of clicking yes without reading the terms for Windows, OSX, Office, itunes, firefox, chrome, gmail, facebook, twitter, amazon, ebay, paypal, PSN, Xbox Live,  etc.  How many actual human beings (not lawyers!) have actually read every word of even one of the above?

I bet ICBM has

fretmeister

I don't know anyone who has read all of Apple's terms who wasn't getting paid to read them.

UnclePsychosis

stickyfiddle said:

I suspect the issue is nothing to do with the forum or the rules, but that we're all used to blindly clicking "I Agree" to everything on websites and software agreements that actually reading the rules doesn't even cross most people's minds (myself included). 

We've had 20 years of clicking yes without reading the terms for Windows, OSX, Office, itunes, firefox, chrome, gmail, facebook, twitter, amazon, ebay, paypal, PSN, Xbox Live,  etc.  How many actual human beings (not lawyers!) have actually read every word of even one of the above?

I think the more specific problem here is that the vast majority of the emporium rules are the same as every other forum-based classifieds system but the "don't delete your content" one is both different to the norm (some forums actively encourage you to delete sold stuff) and non-obvious (why can't I delete something I created?).

I don't know if its technologically feasible but if the mods are able to send a (short) PM to every user saying "Look, lots of people are falling foul of this rule, please don't delete your stuff because..." I suspect it might help.

Drew_TNBD

Tbh I think it's more to do with the fact that people come here SOLELY for the classifieds... and fuck those people.

Deijavoo

Drew_fx said:

Tbh I think it's more to do with the fact that people come here SOLELY for the classifieds... and fuck those people.

There is a bit of that, but generally those guys are doing ads the right way. Also, wasn't everyone moaning about how slow the classifieds are of late?

DesVegas said:

From what he says he has made many sales on here succesfully. Why alienate someone who is an active member of the community?

I see it that way too. People make mistakes, I got banned by Chapper's forum for something similar. Setting up another ID to try to get on and explain, I also understand.

Just my opinion.

digitalscream

Deijavoo said:

Drew_fx said:

Tbh I think it's more to do with the fact that people come here SOLELY for the classifieds... and fuck those people.

There is a bit of that, but generally those guys are doing ads the right way. Also, wasn't everyone moaning about how slow the classifieds are of late?

Actually, it's usually the new guys who get it wrong. That's why we (gently) explain the rule to them first...and it usually goes OK. Then you get ones like this guy, who completely ignore us and carry on - then they get excluded from the classifieds for a little while...

Deijavoo said:

DesVegas said:

From what he says he has made many sales on here succesfully. Why alienate someone who is an active member of the community?

I see it that way too. People make mistakes, I got banned by Chapper's forum for something similar. Setting up another ID to try to get on and explain, I also understand.

Just my opinion.

...then, even though he had a fully-working user ID which he could use to talk to us about it, he realised that he'd been excluded from the classifieds (he'd read that rule), so he created another ID in order to continue selling and deleting content.

I think "moron" is an apt description for somebody like that.

kjdowd

As @digitalscream points out above, it's not like there is an instant decision with no right of appeal. In one of my earlier classified posts, I replaced sold prices with the word "sold". Got a very polite PM asking me not to do that please, reinstated the prices and that was the end of that. No drama, no flouncing, no banning.

I think we can safely assume that if people are banned, they have exhibited behaviour that might earn the soubriquet "dick" from any reasonable commentator.

Deijavoo

I suppose how I seen this storm was that new member fucks up, didn't actually get the usual mockery that is standard for forums (Not just here, in fact here is the only place with friendly mockery), he seems to have sold some stuff already by what he replied with and then could he have missed a message, so thought he could start again and is now permanently ex-communicated.

This just seemed like an active member in the classifieds, which could only help shopping here rather than Facebook/eBay, getting banned quickly. 

Guess I should know all the details before my thumbs mash the phone screen. Never mind.