Recording Setup options – multi track recorder?

thecolourbox

Hi all

Currently when I do recording I use my W10 laptop, with guitars recorded through my Zoom G3 via USB into Audacity (because Cubase doesn’t seem to like it, probably user error), then vocals either using a USB condenser, or more recently using my TC Voicelive, again via usb into Audacity. My computer seems to struggle with allowing me to use my interfaces within Cubase so I tend to create guide tracks there, export them to mp3 then use Audacity to record freely along to the guide tracks then export the good takes to wav to import into Cubase. 

But it’s a bit of a faff, and I always feel like I’ve got wires everywhere with it not being a permanent setup, with the guitar to fx, usb lead to comp, headphones etc, I feel like if I move the wrong way I’m going to pull something out. I’d also like to be able to record more instruments, for example keyboards, which at present is yet more faff. 

So I’ve been thinking about digital multi track recorders. Are there any general pros and cons that I may not have thought of with this? Seem to be a few decent offerings from Boss, Tascam and Zoom et al.

I was thinking I could effectively record basic drum machine rhythms to repeat to be the equivalent of the guide tracks I create for Audacity (or even more detailed drum tracks exported from Cubase to the Multi Track). Then record onto the multitracker again the same way as Audacity, but without having to work a computer at the same time. I’d effectively create the draft recordings on there, then export the files onto my computer where I could sequence them in Cubase and apply all the effects and polish required. I am hoping they export the individual track/audio files rather than an overall mix of everything???

For context, I’m generally fond of doing things the most minimal way possible – I rarely use more than 8 tracks in Cubase on finished projects, let alone just the recording phase. I’m also not an amazing musician and this is purely for my self-indulgent leisure (and Fretboard challenge entries!) so not worth breaking the bank. I’m only really going to need to record guitars, vocals, and keyboard as I don’t use bass or drums, if I use them I use VST instruments. 

Am I better looking into these methods, or something like the rack mounted multi-input interface on sale in the classifieds and persevering with the laptop approach?

Thank you

spark240

Do you want to be able to edit it on PC ?

I see your local to me ( Walsall), Id be happy to talk you through my setup at home although  its a bit more complex than what you are after I think . 

thecolourbox

spark240 said:

Do you want to be able to edit it on PC ?

Yeah absolutely, so effectively use the Multitrack like how I use audacity at the mo, to record the basic parts, then use Cubase to stick them together and add whatever effects need to be added

Ben8010

A couple of times in the past my band recorded our tracks onto a Zoom R16 and then imported the wavs into cubase to edit. This seems like one of the approaches you are looking for and it was pretty easy for us, even as beginners in the whole recording realm. I would think you could do the same using the cheaper R8 as well. But to be honest, a cheaper, and what I think would be an easier option might be to get an audio interface and try to record directly into cubase with that (Eg. Guitar > G3 > Audio Interface > Computer). I've got a Focusrite 2i4 which I run into cubase on a W10 computer and it all plays nicely. The Zoom R16 (which doubles as an AI) never played nicely with them when used as an AI.

thecolourbox

Interesting insight there thanks. The thing is I don’t have much room in my music room (it’s not really a music room, it’s a spare room that I’m allowed to use!) so having somewhere to put the laptop within reach whilst operating the other stuff is not the simplest of tasks, coupled with the fact that I seem to have to set up my Cubase every time I try to record something (it never likes my usb inputs and also the VSTs seem to occasionally move for no apparent reason). I just thought something like a small pedalboard with the relevant gadgets velcroed on it, ready cabled up, might be an easy way to just plug in and record.

 

Something I also vaguely heard of (albeit more expensive) is a digital mixer that records to usb? But I guess that records the whole mix not the individual inputs separately

spark240

Mmm....I think what your after will actually end up more complex than just getting a cheap usb interface..?

http://www.presonus.com/products/Capture  this will allow simple multi-track recording, you can then import the wav files into a DAW of your choice?  you will still need an interface for this though

steamabacus

As a dedicated disciple of Ned Ludd, I think the approach you're suggesting is eminently sensible if it gets you creating music rather than faffing about with computers and cables.

You could even go as small as a hand-held recorder - there are models now that will do four track recording - although a modern 8-track machine will probably be quite compact.

In the past, I've recorded in this way - once with a Boss BR8 (?) 8-track machine and a few times with a Yamaha AW4416 16-track machine. Both these machines come from the days before usb connection to computers for transferring audio but it was still possible, if a bit more time consuming. It allows stuff to be recorded anywhere and then brought back to the computer for mixing, etc.

thecolourbox

spark240 said:

Mmm....I think what your after will actually end up more complex than just getting a cheap usb interface..?

http://www.presonus.com/products/Capture  this will allow simple multi-track recording, you can then import the wav files into a DAW of your choice?  you will still need an interface for this though

Won't that just so the same as Audacity does currently for free? I don't need to record multiple tracks at the same time, but rather use the multi tracks to record each instrument whilst playing back what's already recorded to create a demo/draft of sorts, then just use the files that creates to put onto the computer into cubase. The guitar multi fx and the vocal fx would stay on the pedal board permanently wired into the recording device. 

octatonic

Build a dedicated computer for recording that is set up all the time.
Use a patch bay for inputs and outputs.

Digital Multitrack recorders are a massive compromise- I'd never go back to one.

Winny_Pooh

Use Reaper and your problems will likely be solved.

thecolourbox

octatonic said:

Build a dedicated computer for recording that is set up all the time.
Use a patch bay for inputs and outputs.

Digital Multitrack recorders are a massive compromise- I'd never go back to one.

I don't have the space I'm afraid, my whole life is compromise so I'm not afraid of compromise as long as it gets me enjoying recording my music. If you'd ever heard my stuff you'd realise that compromise is totally acceptable

Winny_Pooh said:

Use Reaper and your problems will likely be solved.

Sorry I disagree, couldn't even get the simplest of functions to be working on that when I've tried it and I don't really have the free time to scale the really steep learning curve

Ben8010

thecolourbox said:

Interesting insight there thanks. The thing is I don’t have much room in my music room (it’s not really a music room, it’s a spare room that I’m allowed to use!) so having somewhere to put the laptop within reach whilst operating the other stuff is not the simplest of tasks, coupled with the fact that I seem to have to set up my Cubase every time I try to record something (it never likes my usb inputs and also the VSTs seem to occasionally move for no apparent reason). I just thought something like a small pedalboard with the relevant gadgets velcroed on it, ready cabled up, might be an easy way to just plug in and record.

If you don't like having to fire up cubase everytime you want to record something then perhaps a multitrack recorder (Zoom R8/16 or the Tascam ones or whatever) might be the way to go, but I wouldn't underestimate how simple a USB interface into the laptop can be. There's a video by JustNick on youtube called something like "how to record guitars" which, I think, demonstrates just how simple it can be.

thecolourbox

Ben8010 said:

thecolourbox said:

Interesting insight there thanks. The thing is I don’t have much room in my music room (it’s not really a music room, it’s a spare room that I’m allowed to use!) so having somewhere to put the laptop within reach whilst operating the other stuff is not the simplest of tasks, coupled with the fact that I seem to have to set up my Cubase every time I try to record something (it never likes my usb inputs and also the VSTs seem to occasionally move for no apparent reason). I just thought something like a small pedalboard with the relevant gadgets velcroed on it, ready cabled up, might be an easy way to just plug in and record.

If you don't like having to fire up cubase everytime you want to record something then perhaps a multitrack recorder (Zoom R8/16 or the Tascam ones or whatever) might be the way to go, but I wouldn't underestimate how simple a USB interface into the laptop can be. There's a video by JustNick on youtube called something like "how to record guitars" which, I think, demonstrates just how simple it can be.

That's what I already do, I don't fire up Cubase to record as none of the interfaces I've ever had have worked with it (Line 6 GX, Zoom g3, an M Audio one that had an amazing bit crushing effect that I presume meant it was faulty, etc etc) but audacity. Really my question is can I replace the Audacity stage with something hardware that doesn't rely on a crap laptop that needs the audio stuff setting up every single time.

My last Fretboard Challenge entry took 3 hours start to finish. It would have been half that if the IT had worked

Ben8010

@thecolourbox I'd say the answer to that is yes - using the "record onto a multitrack recorder and import the wavs if you want to edit" method. I know you can do that with the Zooms, I would assume you can do it with all the others out there as well!

wave100

Personally I would persevere with Cubase - it shouldn't be that much of a faff to get it working, assuming your laptop is up to it. Do you have ASIO drivers installed for your G3 or L6 device? You select them in Cubase by going to the Device menu, then Device setup, then VST audio system. If there is no entry for the device you are trying to use, you need to either download and install the drivers from the manufacturer's website or try ASIO4all which is a free universal ASIO driver. Once this is done Cubase should remember which driver you have selected and use it every time you start the programme, so you should only have to go through this this once. Bear in mind that if you are using the G3, this will be your monitoring source so you will need to plug headphones or speakers into it so that you can hear what is going on. Give this a go and get back to us.

Wolfetone

octatonic said:

Build a dedicated computer for recording that is set up all the time.
Use a patch bay for inputs and outputs.

Digital Multitrack recorders are a massive compromise- I'd never go back to one.

I dunno. I went from digital multitrackers to computers/interface and back to multitracking with a KORG D1600 linked to my laptop and using Reaper to mix down and master. The reason was the fiddling about with the infinite options/complications of Reaper as opposed to just pushing a button and concentrating on the performance without worrying about the computer.

stratman3142

Wolfetone said:

octatonic said:

Build a dedicated computer for recording that is set up all the time.
Use a patch bay for inputs and outputs.

Digital Multitrack recorders are a massive compromise- I'd never go back to one.

I dunno. I went from digital multitrackers to computers/interface and back to multitracking with a KORG D1600 linked to my laptop and using Reaper to mix down and master. The reason was the fiddling about with the infinite options/complications of Reaper as opposed to just pushing a button and concentrating on the performance without worrying about the computer.

Reaper, like other DAWs I assume, has lots of options and complications, but it's possible to ignore all that and just learn a few basic things and stick to those. 99% of the time I use Reaper in a very basic way.

mellowsun

I became more productive when I ditched the laptop for tracking - I still use it for mixing though.

I capture raw tracks with a Tascam DR-100 but it is a bit limiting, so I've just ordered a 24 track portastudio. 8 XLR inputs, 19 faders, monitor outs, external fx sends for 300 quid seems ridiculous value to me, but lets hope it is usable! I'll post back when I start using it later this week/next.

thecolourbox

mellowsun said:

I became more productive when I ditched the laptop for tracking - I still use it for mixing though.

I capture raw tracks with a Tascam DR-100 but it is a bit limiting, so I've just ordered a 24 track portastudio. 8 XLR inputs, 19 faders, monitor outs, external fx sends for 300 quid seems ridiculous value to me, but lets hope it is usable! I'll post back when I start using it later this week/next.

Yes please do, sounds an interesting set up