Drum Tracks / Original Backing Tracks

Rox

I used to write loads of original songs and I have dozens of tapes full of songs and compositions.  I was aided by a brilliant keyboard which allowed me to write the drum and bass parts really quickly from scratch.  I could create a backing track from nothing literally in 10 minutes.  It had seven different 'layers' for instruments, and six different 'loops' you could programme - and the parts could all be recorded in 'real time'.  All these were assigned on specific buttons, and it made making a track really simple - you could just get on with the playing without all the programming.

That meant the creative process wasn't stopped by the need for a great sounding drum track.  Unfortunately the keyboard is now decades old, and the sounds are really not up to scratch. 

I've tried quite a few more modern solutions, but am really finding it difficult to find a simple way to create drum tracks for new compositions.  With drum machines I find I lose the creative impetus because they're often quite long-winded to get a result.  By that time, the moment of inspiration has gone.

I've tried other more modern arranger workstation keyboards, and they're so complicated, it's not very simple to create something.  Whether it's a standalone solution, or one that can be used on a PC (I use Reaper) I really don't mind, but it MUST be fairly simple and intuitive.

I'm looking for the Holy Grail, really - but any suggestions very much welcome.    I've been looking for a decent option for many years!

guitarfishbay

Most drum instruments come with midi libraries arranged by style and tempo.

You can usually just drag the groove from the browser straight to your DAW and arrange your track there.

There are lots of programs available. Some examples are EZ/Superior Drummer, BFD 3, Steven Slate Drums. The sounds from any of those programs will be miles better than what you'd get from an old keyboard.

I'd recommend watching some youtube tutorials on some drum programs to get an idea of which one would suit you best.

ChrisMusic

Can you not use your old keyboard and ease of working and creation that you are used to, and trigger high quality samples via midi from your computer.

Once set up that has to be an easy and painless way forward.  It also buys you time to check what alternatives are out there before taking the plunge on a new working methodology.

Rox

@guitarfishbay Thanks for the suggestion - I did try EZ Drummer, but I didn't get on with it very well.  I may be thick.    It was that I found it difficult to find simple driving rock beats, with useful fills.

@ChrisMusic - I really wish that were possible!  I can program a whole drum backing track so quickly, it would just make my life so easy!!  My old keyboard is a Yamaha PSR500, and according to Yamaha, whilst it says it is Midi, it isn't (apparently) completely 100% Midi compatible (whatever that actually means!)  Having said all that, I know nothing about MIDI.. for those who know more about these things, this is the Yamaha manual for the PSR 400/500:

http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/emi/english/port/PSR500E.PDF

All the midi details are on page 33 - quite brief so I suspect it's not possible.  Perhaps it will make sense to someone!!  Otherwise, that would really have been a great way of doing it.

Mind you, the whole setting up Midi channels baffles me.  I've never been able to work out Midi.  Like I said above - I may be thick. 

ChrisMusic

Hmmmm...  I have forgotten more than I ever knew about MIDI, and a load of other stuff, but that's another story.

Looking on page 35 left column 2nd paragraph from the bottom it says that "multi pad" is not transmitted, which is what I assume you are using for the rhythm parts (as on page 31).

It might be worth finding someone local to you who knows a bit and has a midi keyboard and cable to try seeing if there is anything much more than basic note and velocity info transmitted. 

Sometimes the manufacturers don't even know what the R&D department put into a piece of kit, so it is always worth checking, there's nothing to loose.

With any luck someone else on here knows more than I do (not difficult) and can unravel this further.

Hope that helps a bit at least, cheers, Chris.  

ChrisMusic

Just thinking out loud - you may still be able to use your keyboard a a programmer, as it does do note and velocity stuff OK, even if you can't use it as a sequencer.  Sorry I am not too up on current kit, so that's another journey I want to take, good luck.

Jez6345789

Hi I am sure everyone has their way round this way. Personally I just noodle away to a click, and fabricate the drums and everything else once the basic changes and structure are done. I find much more than bass drum and snare, distracting . I personally just mentally visualise what's going on with the drums fill etc and then build these later. Looking at the midi spec you could still use it for note and velocity input from the keyboard. You could easily assign the keys to trigger drum sounds in Reaper and record basic arrangement. That said with these old home style keyboards they never used to transmit all the fancy arpeggios and additional stuff added to your basic keyboard chord changes. Same with the drums. If you do not want play or program drums there are a wide range of free or paid for drum grooves and loops you can use within reaper. As midi data If it's quick auto backing you miss to your basic chords changes might be worth looking at something like band in a box it can be a bit generic but has a mass of options to create fast backing. Ideal for roughing out ideas. Regards jez

Rox

I guess I was quite spoiled with the keyboard, Jez.  So my working practice for writing a song is to create my own drum track to the rhythm in my head, then record and play over that.  That's what makes pre-recorded or even click-tracks alien to my way of writing.

I suppose that's the problem... but then we all have our own ways and habits for writing...

axisus

I had the same problem with drum tracks, and had a rather extravagant solution - I bought an electronic drum kit! OK, so I'm no drummer but it's great fun, and it's ideal for my kind of backing track as I often vary the tempo, something which can't be done with Garageband (my recording software of choice - so quick n easy). I record the keyboard in a single pass and then play the drums to that.

Rox

I even went to the extent of putting together a whole proper drum kit - to find I'm as co-ordinated as an epileptic spider!   

spark240

Im no drummer by a long score....and I do struggle with programming, but I have have been able to use the patterns and grooves from the Studio One kits and edit easily.

I know what you mean though, It all seemed so easy on my old Roland XP50 workstation !     

Fretwired

I use an NI Maschine which you can play quite easily and then tidy the drum track up afterwards.



You can buy loads of extra kits:

http://www.thelooploft.com/collections/maschine-drum-kits/products/maschine-kit-blues-drums-1

Rox

spark240 said:

Im no drummer by a long score....and I do struggle with programming, but I have have been able to use the patterns and grooves from the Studio One kits and edit easily.

I know what you mean though, It all seemed so easy on my old Roland XP50 workstation !     

I had an XP50 too..!  But this old Yamaha outdid that for ease of use too.  I think I was spoiled. 

I've got a Rhythmtrak 234, and that baffles me enough! 

ToneControl

Try an Ableton Live demo

Rox

I'm going to have a bash at EZ Drummer again... perhaps I really just need to put my mind to it.

Thanks for all the suggestions, chaps. 

ChrisMusic

If you have either Apples iPad or iPhone (or Mac) you could consider Garage Band which is supposed to be pretty easy to get to grips with.  Plenty of stuff on YouTube about how to use it, or just Google some articles if it's of any interest.

Rox

For me, Apples are for eatin'. 

Jez6345789

My iPad air is so good I could eat it. We'll if you compose to your own rhythm :-) then it's time to burn the midnight oil on a new drum machine or software. That said I struggle to get my head round all the newer stuff. As much as I have had computers for music since the Atari days I still remember stuff from old keyboards and stuff far better than I do in logic. My writing partner could make his old Roland work station dance a jig and put together a three part drums bass and keys in a frantic dash through the menus. Put him in front of Logic and he runs like a three legged dog in treacle :-) Jez

Rox

That's exactly it!  Sometimes they make things far too complicated.

Basically on the keyboard it was dead easy.  No LCD display, so dedicated buttons...

Rhythm - For your drum / percussion (but you could do this on any track)
Bass - Self explanatory
1 - a single instrument track
2 - 2 tracks (press the button twice to get to the second track)
3 - 2 further tracks (same as above)

So basically 7 tracks you could record onto.

The song itself had five buttons you could edit: Intro, Fill 1, Verse, Fill 2, Bridge, Ending.  They had a set number of bars (2 for Intro, 1 for the Fills, and 4 for the verse, bridge and ending).  That was the standard number for 'Accompaniment Style 1, but other styles (99 of them!) often had different lengths.

Although that looked limiting, it you were clever, you'd put other bass / rhythm tracks on the other instrument tracks and you'd be able to double the tracks.  And all the instrument buttons could be turned on or off 'on the fly'.

All you had to do was choose the song you wanted to edit; delete the sounds from it, and then press 'record', where the track would loop while you played on whichever track you liked.  It meant you could tweak as you went along.  It literally took seconds to start playing along to a blank canvas.

Bloody brilliant.

Jez6345789

May be it's time to look for a VGC 2nd had PSR 500 You could always do all the work is the PSR and then use audio out to transfer the drum track and a plugin to convert audio to midi assigned to a suitable drum sample. You can use the basic midi out to capture the basic keyboard chords. That way you still get the quick and dirty don't lose inspiration method you currently have and then just brush up on your production skills in Reaper for the tracks that are worth polishing. Regards jez

Rox

Oh I still have my PSR500.   

Can you really convert audio to midi like that?  Blimey.